6 Common Brainwashing Techniques They're Using on you Right Now.

If I thought for a second that this would continue into a rational discussion, I would be more willing to spend the time to explain. But, history has proven......

In a nutshell.

Osama is the 17th child of Mohammed bin Laden. Mohammed was married 22 times and fathered 54 children. (some sources say 52 children)

In 1930 Mohammed started his own construction business in Saudi Arabia. Mohammed grew his business by providing quality work, at a price lower than his competition. In 1950 he founded the Saudi Binladin Group. His reputation and his relationship to Ibn Saud led to several important government contracts. This relationship, along with several important high profile construction projects, allowed him to forge close relationship with the Saudi Royal Family.

In the 1960's Saudi Arabia was in dire financial trouble, and Mohammed offered some of his already vast wealth to assist the Saudi government in carrying out social services, to prevent an uprising. Kind Faisal accepted Mohammed's assitance and issued a royal decree that all future construction contracts would go to Mohammed's Saudi Binladin Group.

Osama briefly worked for his father and in the family business on several construction projects, but his interest faded when he began to be radicalized by influence of Wahhabism, mentor Muhammad Qutb, mentor Sheikh Salman al-Oadah, and the writings of Sayyid Qutb (Muhammad Qutb's brother). After the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, Osama left Saudi Arabia for Peshawar, Pakistan, where he joined with Abdullah Azzam. The rest is history.

Mohammed bin Laden passed in 1968 and the Saudi Binladin Group was taken over by Mohammed's brother-in-law. In 1972 the business was again taken over, this time by Salem bin Laden and several other brothers. Salem was the eldest son of Mohammed.

Shortly after the Soviet Union withdrew from Afghanistan, Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. Osama offered Saudi Arabia his protection, along with his army of fighters. Saudi Arabia turned down the offer.......Osama relocated to Khartoum, Sudan and began to publicly disgrace the Kingdom. Loudly preaching about the obligation of every Muslim to stop the Saudi Royal Family from desecrating Islam in the Holy Land, several members of the bin Laden family contacted Osama and pleaded with him to stop making waves. The Saudi government also later visited Osama in Sudan and asked him to stop his public humiliation of the Royal Family. They offered him money and entrance back into the country, as long as he would agree to keep quiet. Osama declined the offer by the Saudi Government, and they revoked his citizenship. It was also around this time that the family members that would periodically communicate with him, cut their ties. As Osama became more radical, the more he became an outcast.

Today, Saudi Binladin Group is a multi-billion dollar, mulit-national construction conglomerate. While most of their business is conducted in the Middle East, they are a global corporation.

I kind of jumped around a bit here, but wanted to give you a brief history of SBG, Mohammed, and the transformation of Osama. There are dozens of books out there on these subjects, and they offer much detail. If you are interested, I would suggest you go and find some.

Two books that I would recommend starting with are The Osama bin Laden I Know by Peter Bergen and The Looming Tower by Lawrence Wright. The first book is a collection of interviews with people who know/knew bin Laden, and gives a good insight into who he is and how he was transformed. The second book is a good summary of how Islamic Fundamentalism has evolved in the last 60 years. It also chronicles the formation of al Qaeda and its integration with Egyptian Islamic Jihad (with the help of Ayman al-Zawahiri).

Some choose to understand, some choose to write it off as conspiracy. Which ever you choose, understanding the subject will help you discuss it. Like I said, I do not mind discussing this, but I do not want to waste my time telling you something that you are unwilling to accept before you even understand it.

 

So... they are really closer than you implied. A prodigal son is still a son.

 

I never denied that Osama was not a member of the bin Laden family. If you are really new here then you may not know that some here believe that Bush was behind 9/11. They often use the relationship between Bush and members of the bin Laden family affiliated with Saudi Binladin Group as proof of the conspiracy. My position is that these people clearly do not understand what/who the Saudi Binladin Group is and what their relationship with Osama was/is.

 

Just to clarify my point. Since 9/11, Osama has tainted the bin Laden name to a point where any mention of "bin Laden" is automatically linked to Osama bin Laden. There is often no understanding of the legitimate members of the bin Laden family.

 

I am familiar with those allegations and frankly I can't picture the bush administration being so competent. The truth is probably worse than any conspiracy people dream. But this is not the conspiracy forum, right?

There are, however, extensive ties between the bushes and the bin ladens and they are relevant. And Osama bin Laden did indeed get tons of support from the US back in the days of Soviet occupation. There may not be a conspiracy there, but there is definitely something.

 

As for family ties, I think the most honest answer any typical American can say is that the family structure of the bin Laden's is something we can't understand. I certainly can't. I can pretend I do but..errr...no I don't understand it.

I didn't mean that you wrote anything wrong, its great info. I see the conspiracy people making a fundamental error of assuming the bin Laden family operates in similar ways to a good ole USA family.

 

what, you mean they bicker about little things and generally are dysfunctional?

 

umm... please go back and edit your post, there is a b where there should be an s.

 

Not in relation to Osama or al Qaeda.

Not true, but a common myth. Aid went to the Afghans, not foreign Arabs. bin Laden and friends actually played a very small role in the war. Their only real attribute was a battle near Jaji, which strategically, was relatively unimportant. This battle served more propaganda service than anything, as it was wildy touted a success in Abdullah Azzam's jihadi publications. It also helped some of the fighters achieve their fantasy of martyrdom.

 

it's still true we gave him his start, despite your characterization.

Or are you saying he got all his funding from the family he has nothing to do with?

 

Wish I'd said that!

 

His start to what? Radical Islam? The CIA didn't fund him, they didn't train him, and they didn't indoctrinate him. His belief in Fundamentalist Islam was already in place by the time he reached Afghanistan. His hatred for Western culture and ideals evolved and strengthened in the years after that.

Osama received an inheritance when his father passed, and he also received a monthly stipend, which his family stopped paying when they cut ties with him. Funds are also funneled to terrorist groups through Islamic charities, who recieve money from zakat and sadaqah.

 

The west didn't fund or arm his campaign against the Russians?

 

yeah, from what i can find, the link between Bin laden and the CIA is tenuous at best. The CIA denies it, so it has to be false, right? The CIA wouldn't lie to cover up their own incompetence, would they?

To get back to the subject though, it is true that the unit dedicating to finding the guy has been shut down.

 

No. His "campaign" was ragtag at best. One short battle that was of little military importance. It is widely believed that bin Laden was not even in Afghanistan when the real fighting began. He and others are thought to have retreated back into Pakistan. However, the battle would be of spiritual importance as it was widely used as propaganda to inspire the fighters. The Arab fighters fought the Soviet Spetznaz in a cave complex known as al-Maasada (the Lions Den). bin Laden was often referred to as "the Lion". The significance of this battle was related to another battle described in a poem by Hassan Ibn Thabit, the Prophet's favorite poet. The poem reads:

Whoever wishes to hear the clash of swords,
let him come to Maasada,
where he will find courageous men ready to die
for the sake of God.

To the fundamentalist fighters, this was a clear sign of their call to faith.

At the time bin Laden was of little importance to the Americans, or their efforts. But, the MAK's fund raising and recruitment in Peshawar would become pivotal to the later formed organization known as al Qaeda. The MAK was run like a business, taking applications, and keeping personnel files on fighters. This provided bin Laden with a Rolodex of fighters that he could later call on. Anyways...

 

The CIA did not need bin Laden. It was not a matter of needing fighters, it was a matter of seizing the initiative. This was accomplished by removing the Soviet's air superiority.

Like I stated in post #21, Alex was disbanded and agents were reassigned to CTC. This decision to disband Alex was made about five years after 9/11, because it was widely believed that al Qaeda was no longer a hierarchial organization, and that efforts to combat global terrorism would be more efficient with the use of broader personnel and resources. It should be known that the effort to track down bin Laden or other members of al Qaeda never ceased. It was merely a restructuring of the unit that was assigned to that duty.

 

well, that wraps that up...

USA! USA! USA!

 

I wish his name was Brown, Smith, Jones, Wilson, or even McCain. That name is what is going to sink hiis campaign. Too bad really because McCain/Palin will do much more to infringe on individual American rights.

 

Maassada Wasn't that where the jews committed suicide after watching the romans build ramps for over two years? Much like followers of Jim Jones did in Jonestown

 

Y2K, what do you want to know?