Ocala 2009

Opening up a discussion on Ocala 2009... not for negativity or support, just ongoing information.

Site: Hopkins Prairie is the location on the 5 year cycle. We were there in '99 and '04. Advantages: Best main circle, parking and Bus village linear/roadside parking only. This may reduce incidents at the front gate. Are other sites being suggested/scouted? Might more then one site be better for this year?

Discussions: Is 2009 time to become selective on what kitchens are invited in order to make Ocala safer? (Please note I am not taking sides, only opening up discussions on issues like Death Camp and Front Gate. There are kitchens and camps that I personally dislike but this is not about personal issues and/or hospitality, it is about where does Ocala go from here...)

Permit: Ocala has been a permitted gathering for some years now. That is expected to continue. However, a volunteer is needed for initial contact with Pat at the FS. I do not want it to be me, as I have stepped aside from those tasks. Is anyone interested in that responsibility?

Last year many members of Florida Family took a year off. What can be done to involve the most amount of people for 2009?

Remember that these discussions are just that, discussions. Florida Family will meet the first Sunday after hunting season at our traditional council site, the third hammock on the way to Farles Prairie and those who attend will have a voice in the choices made for 2009.

I open these discussions as nothing more then an individual interested in Ocala. I have no special information or influance, nor do I claim any. Again this is not about me or any other individual, it is about a joint effort we call a gathering. Participation, as always is the key to a great time being had by all.

Hoping all is well with family and to see family and friends the last two weeks of February in the Ocala NF.

Barry

 

All these years, and you still just don't get it.

 

Yup, he doesn't get it, not in the heart/loving sense or in the logistic/legal sense. First, everyone with a heart is everyone...only a full council on the land can make safety calls and even then, those who are a safety hazard to themselves or others & cannot be helped by Family are taken to the local mental hospital, not just kept out of the loop. With Legals, make a Gathering private thru invitations & you open up a whole other box of worms; different permit regs, different requirements for optaining a permit.

And BTW...what some Ocala Family chose to do a year or 2 back was just crappy, sending out Howdy Folks with info putting down Front Gate & telling people how to get around them...no wonder more problems have arisen with Front Gate, when people single them out & put out bad press about them. The vibe between Front Gate & lighter drinking/non-drinking Family is disintegrating because some folks have decided to quit treating Front Gate like Family!

 

loving you all & looking forward to seeing my family again. i want to address the kitchen issue. first of all i didn't know we had a problem with the kitchens. i know we had a kitchen that didn't quite understand the concept at first of "vegan" when serving main circle and i heard of one supposed incident of a few people that felt sick after eating in a kitchen. isn't this dealt with by kitchen council and inspections? was there an issue i don't know about?

other than that my opinion is that the notions of "invitation only" and "rainbow gathering" is not compatible with each other. we all have belly buttons. we try to put tools in place to deal with issues that we know we will have to face, and we have council to deal with any other problems that come up. maybe it's the fact that we don't call council enough (or shanta sena) to manage problems openly and in a fair manner that could be improved upon.

loving you brother barry! hope to see you at vision coucil in the spring. i've missed the sandhill cranes and family. chime

 

I opened a thread for discussion on issues that are currently being talked about by individuals. I have not taken a stand one way or the other on this, but I certainly understand the problems. Ignoring these problems has not helped. Remaining pure to ideals is fine, but at what cost. I agree that everyone should be welcomed, but does that include those who we know will create dangers for all.

If what you are saying is that regardless, everyone, is welcome, fine, but with that idea, then many of the people doing the most are no longer willing to continue. So if YOU are insisting that everyone, including violent and dangerous camps and individuals MUST be welcomed, what are YOU willing to do to mitigate the harm that is causing.

I have not yet suggested that anyone not be welcomed, I have asked is that something that should be considered and if so under what circumstances? You want to shoot the messenger, then do so but if you think that by ignoring this issue it will go away you are wrong.

15 years ago, facing virtually this same issue, the original Florida Family who focalized Ocala, including Palm Tribe and Cinote, walked away, never to return. At that time, younger individuals filled the void created. Ignoring the violence and dangers may indeed create a similar situation today. However, my question is, if that is what you want... are YOU willing to fill that void on this round? Are you willing to place yourself in danger trying to deal with this on a Friday Night during seed camp versus looking at it beforehand.

At this point I have not taken a stand on an issue raised by some of our strongest loudest and hardest working focalizers, but I have vocalized, in as soft a set of words I could muster, their ongoing concerns for open discussion. If your solution to this problem is personal attacks on me... knock yourself out, but you aren't helping anything. Speak solutions, speak opinions, this is what we do.. attack me and you may win the argument, but what will happen in the forest as a result of your "victory?" How will Ocala be the better for it?

Barry

 

Those of you who read the email side of AGR might be aware that some of the legal dueling between Us and USFuSs involves whether the Annual Gathering is a public or private event. A lot of this legal strategical theorization goes clear over my head, but I think I understand that public=good and private=bad for Us. Of course, we should also be aware that the Florida Winter gathering is NOT the Annual Gathering, and comparing the two isn't even "apples and oranges", more like "apples and computers"...but let's not shoot the Gathering in the foot.

 

Scott,

On that we are in agreement. Ocala is a different gathering then the Annual Rainbow and follows a completely different set of rules. On whether it is a Gathering, a Rainbow Gathering or simply Ocala I don't know if I am willing to take a stand, but, in many ways, it can only be the latter.

The discussion being opened was about changing the rules and whether or not that is a good idea. You have always taught me that change is a slippery slope that needs to be approached with great care. I agree with that also. Discussions are just that , exchanges of ideas. We seem as a family to have gotten away from that and perhaps it is something we should consider returning to.

You certainly know, first hand, all about the problems and the issues facing Ocala. Further it is my bet that you, like myself, are not planning on a two month stint on the land in Ocala. So lets, for the sake of family, try and have some open discussions about Ocala. You know how wide this list is, lets have some discourse on what you DO think should or could happen to make 2009 a better Ocala. You and many of the family who read this have had some amazing times in Ocala, and you/we/they have witnessed an/or participated in some the world's greatest cluster fu*ks, often within the space of a very short period of time.

2009 looks to be a year when Ocala is going to need some focus and support , especailly from a 'ol time, high holy like yourself!!!! Looking forward to your suggestions for 2009 Ocala.

Barry

 

the best way I know of to handle negativity is to respond with LOVE... if they don't want hugs, it's nice to do some work for the people who need a lot of Love... backrubs, or even pitching in a few bucks for beer goes a long way towards saying "WE LOVE YOU"

I've met a lot of a-campers in Ocala particularly that really hate 'rainbows' and 'rainbowland' my guess is that has something to do with family responding to negativity with more negativity when we all know that...

Love, is the answer....

(not that love doesn't come in a roll of duct tape every once in a while)

 

Interesting concept.

That is definitely what is needed to make the gatherings a very pleasant place for all families involved.

Maybe we can find a way to get Budweiser or Coors to start sponsoring us.

Just think of the potential of the kitchens~!

Bet there would be a lot of beer battered food.

Can't forget about the kiddies!

Snickers might as well get in on the action.

Where do we send our donations to the Keg fund?


:cheers2:

 

i dont know, i was at ocala in 2007 and it didnt seem to me front gate had too many issues with the gathering...i guess things may have gotten worse over the last couple years...mybae it'd be better if more of the non-dinking family spent some time at front gate just 2 show we dont need to alienate anybody

 

"The operation was a success, but the patient died". Whatever the Ocala thingy is, it has a strong Rainbow flavor. Turning it into some kind of invitation only thing would kill the last of that. Private parties and festivals may be good things, and one of the roots of Rainbow is commercial music festivals. Is it possible to go back to the womb? I don't want this for Ocala. if there's a gathering, however weak the rainbow flavor is, and a private party, on the Ocala NF in Feb, I'll chose the gathering. Maybe the best thing is to just leave it alone for a couple years, and see if it either dies of natural causes, or heals itself. My biggest concern it that, with Arjay and I out of the picture, you will try another power play like you did at the last Hopkins gathering. The best thing you can do for my Family is spend February in the Bahamas....and if you are acting as spokesman for unnamed parties, the best thing they can do for their cause is find a less controversial spokesman.

Just when I thought it was impossible for me to like you less......

 

P.L.S. a high holy??:smilielol5:to fuckin funny..
id call P.L.S. a lotta things,and probably have over the years, but "high holy" sure as hell aint one of them..

 

Everybody's got an opinion and that's mine... not that Scott is a high holy, i think real HH's are few and far between, that he THINKS that he is!

For the record I never tried any Power Play in Hopkins in '04. I was the signatore that year and there were discussions about potential actions that got him upset, but I took almost no actions (okay maybe a little selective disinformation to some ravers about their potential for arrest because of their all night electronic bass distortions, but nothing more serious then that).

My record in dealings with the Ocala remains clear. I took no action opposed or unsanctioned by either council or many, many wise voices being consulted first. Okay it is a problem if someone could do something as a representative that effects the whole, but as an individual that is also true. I have not signed for several years and I have been on the sidelines. I expect to have the same happen this year...

but I for one do not want to see Ocala "die a natural death." I would much rather see a way for it to heal. I disagree with letting it alone, just like I disagree with leaving an open fire burning and walking away and trusting that the universe will take care and not allow the fire to spread.

Ocala will happen this year and as an individual I hope it is not a clusterfu*k. As a Florida resident who encourages others to go there, how can I do that if it is unsafe? Regardless whether I plan to spend a few days there or an entire winter I hope that my words and actions cause Ocala to be a safer, healthier ... whatever it is....

There are pholks in Gainesville and elsewhere who are still mad that their 1993 decree ending the Ocala Regional Rainbow Gathering remains unheeded. It is my belief that Ocala will not end and certainly not with a whimper. Without careful planning and effort, it may, however, be ended by the FS as part of an entirely different agenda, having less to do with public and private and more to do with full time habitation in the Ocala NF coupled with typical front gate violence and shenanigans.

 

PLS a high holy, yeah right! now i don't have enough patience to read all those posts in there intirety, but it did catch the invite thing, and barry you of all people should be glad that there isn't an invite list because you probably wouldn't be on it in the first place. now you don't know me, but i do know who you are, and i have heard things about you through the grapevine, and i must say, i like you better OVER THERE, only while i'm over here. now if i'm over there you should totally be over here, because i do tend to get lippy especially when drinking is involved. just ask wanderingturnup he'll tell ya.

 

I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again. Barry was taking a walk in the National Forest one day. He came across a dragon and a unicorn. They were sitting across a stump from one another, playing a game of chess. Barry took a look at the board, and said, "Hey! That's all wrong! Both that dragon's bishops are on the same color square!"

I can't think of anyone who really understands enough about how Rainbow works well enough to go doctoring on it. But I can think of few who are less qualified than Barry.

I don't want to see the Ocala gathering die, or be put out of its misery by USFuSs, either. But I believe ignorant meddling is likely to do more harm than good. Old Ocala hands tell me we have a good gathering every 5 years or so. I was at the last really good one at Lake Mary, what, 3 years ago, now? This year, and over the next few years, the Florida winter thing is likely to see refugees from the 2nd Great Depression. We saw one or two at Shawnee. Whether this will make things better or worse, I don't know. Call me a hopeless romantic fool if you will, but I trust that good ol' Rainbow Magic will make it all work out for the best.

 

>PLS a high holy, yeah right! now i don't have enough patience to read all >those posts in there intirety,

Try reading it all and then speaking...

>but it did catch the invite thing,

Which was an attempt to find a polite way to discuss what, if you judge the subjects raised in this thread, is the number one issue facing Ocala.. dealing with the front gate and other violent "family" I have nothing against a-camp but I do object to some camps that sanction violent, bad and dangerous behavior. If you really think this isn't the number one subject on the individuals who comprise Florida Family's mind as regards Ocala, then as I said before, when you attacked me on AGR last year.. you are just another computer jockey sitting in his underwear telling pholks on the land what to do...

>and barry you of all people should be glad that there isn't an invite list >because you probably wouldn't be on it in the first place.

But at least I show up on the land and stand behind my words. I might not be on your list, but i have never suffered from a shortage of invitations....

>now you don't know me, but i do know who you are,

And as I said before, to you, both here and on AGR, sniping behind a computer screen is unimpressive. If you know who I am, try telling me to my face. I am at plenty of places for you, if you are really someone who attends gatherings, to do so

>and i have heard things about you through the grapevine, and

now that's a good source. You have something to say say it and I will answer it...

>i must say, i like you better OVER THERE,

I am "overthere", on the land, sitting in council and speaking my mind... and i have no intention of changing.

>only while i'm over here.

back at ya!

>now if i'm over there you should totally be over here, because i do tend to >get lippy especially when drinking is involved. just ask wanderingturnup >he'll tell ya.

OOHHHHH so you are a drunk... no wonder you don't like me... try changing drugs or sobering up, maybe your view of the world will change.

 

I hope you are right... but I know that it is not about me and without some change or some plan, there will be a whole lot less hard working pholk participating AGAIN this year, much to the detriment of both the gathering and the safety of its participants.

 

Hmm, yeah, well.
So I'm gonna come set up a kitchen again this year. Would love to get plugged in as to ANY upcoming councils/scouting. I have a good bit of free time off between now and Feb. and I can get up to Ocala or A-Cola or anywhere else in the state at least every other week from now til then. At the very least, there's enough room in A-Cola for a few/few-dozen of us Florida folks to get get together for a weekend so we can SEE it's an option or (quite possibly) not for a smaller gathering in March. I'm less than 100 miles from Ocala NF so as soon as someone lets me know there's ANYONE there, I will start bringing food. I have resources in Tampa to help keep holding camp fed all winter (not that I think a huge holding camp should sit in Ocala all winter). I also want to hear from some other kitchen folk to try to get a huge bulk produce buy together like we did for IRIS/Grateful Dreads/Fat Kids last year. Money goes at least 5 times as far at the wholesale produce market as it does at the Ocala grocer. $300 bought almost a ton of produce last year - as well as a good half a ton of recoverable dumpster produce (There's always SOMETHING you can do with 2000 canteloupes)

Overboard
IRIS Kitchen

 

barry like i said not enough patience, but that doesn't make you like you anymore. sorry i can't manage to sit through your drama queen act as a useless political figure, who can't politic your ass from a hole in the ground. lovin you brother from way over here. and as for sniping with me here and on AGR your WRONG because i don't ever go to AGR, and this is this first time we have ever conversed. now i have met you in person, in wyoming and at ocala, so yeah once AGAIN you don't have a fuckin clue who i am, other wise you wouldn't be trying to play political games with me, cause if you did know me you'd know that i do believe in that good old fashion rainbow hippie dippie magic. so next time you try to make a snidely come back make sure you actually know what you're talking about instead talking out your ass like you know what's going on.

 

oh and by the way IT'S TEA TIME! stay the fuck out of the tea house!