Obama and ACORN

Just so this thread comes full circle.

WATCH THIS VIDEO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNYBw7xr0F4

 

Its a non issue.

ACORN has produced bogus registrations, but there's not evidence they produce vote fraud. They are very different and one does not have to lead to another.

If ACORN pays people per registration, some people are going to produce fake registrations. But ACORN cannot simply throw these applications away, that's illegal. They have to pass them on, although they can - and do - flag them as suspect. In fact that's how so many of these bogus ones were found.

There is no evidence anyone is actually showing up to vote using fake registrations, despite huge efforts to uncover vote fraud. And why would they? People get a free hamburger for submitting a voter registration form that says Dik Chainy and so what, nothing comes of it. But show up to vote with a fake registration and you can do prison time.

The thing is though you can make it up.

 

True Enough MJ. they all interlink and are dedutable. We needed a tax preparer to figure it all out.

Jersey screws me no matter.

Jersey also screws the Federal Goverment as the outrageously high real estate taxes are fully deductable for Federal purposes. Homeowners in Jersey can normally write-off between six and ten thousand dollars in Real estate tax. People in say, Missouri or Ohio might pay a thousand a year.

Why is the Federal goverment providing such a big tax break?

 

i believe the thought is that folks living further apart (lesser population density) are more self-reliant, and just don't need that much government to oversee their affairs.

As a for instance: My folks own a ranch out in the middle of, literally, nowhere. They dug their own wells (they have two), they paid thousands of dollars for the electric co-op to string lines, which my folks actually OWN, and it's on a dirt road (2 miles in from one 2-lane paved road, and 4 miles in from the other 2-lane paved road).

No city is having to do anything about their water. They had a huge pond dug, which holds run-off from rains, and acts as a beginning filter for the water on its way down to the water table.

No city is having to do anything about their electricity. They own part of the electric company ~ that's why it's a co-op.

There aren't any roads, to speak of. Once every three or so months, the county yard comes out and pours more caliche on, then levels it out. Oh! And the caliche pit? Yeah, the people that own that used to be the only neighbors, 1 1/2 miles down the road.

We don't need that many schools because there just aren't that many of us.

Most of the folks that are poor are taken care of by the entire community, so we don't need very much in the way of 'programs.'

Well, you get the idea. When folks are jammed together, a central entity (gov) has to provide all the things the folks can no longer provide for themselves.

Or so our gov seems to think...

 

If it was a non issue then the FBI would not be investigating. Voter registration fraud is a criminal offense. Do you think tax dollars are being well spent paying officials to investigate questionable voter cards, paying local and federal law enforcement to investigate cases, paying the court system to hear these fraud cases? What about the poor saps that get sucked into breaking the law for a cigarette, cheeseburger, or $8.00 an hour. From what I see it is not doing anybody any good.

One does not have to lead to the other, and I doubt it does. Out of the tens of thousands of fraudulent cards submitted, I bet you could count the actual voter fraud occurances on one hand. But that is besides the point. Every fucking four years we hear this bullshit about ACORN. You think ACORN is going to stop on their own? A decade has proven that they cannot.

And registration fraud is also a crime. If ACORN is not properly educating their employees on the seriousness of committing a criminal offense, and their compensation policies tempt their employees to commit fraud to meet quotas, then something is wrong. It probably wouldn't hurt either to better screen their employees. The public may feel a little bit different indulging personal information to an employee of ACORN if they knew that personal was a convicted child molester, convicted felon, identity thief, etc...

 

As a person whose skepticism I've come to admire, you show a lot of faith in the FBI, Wacky.

Certainly as an arm of the executive branch, especially under our new "unitarian executive" rule of law, I can't imagine the FBI (or the DEA or the ATF or FEMA, etc. etc.) being dispatched for solely political purposes.

 

Mark Crispin Miller: New York University:

Paraphrase:

Voter fraud is a massive propaganda campaign to actively disenfranchise millions of Americans. Poor Americans. ACORN's pay-to-register policy is obviously flawed, but bogus registrations are not voter fraud.

True voter fraud? "It never happens." As of 2007 the Dept. of Justice had prosecuted 120 cases of voter fraud over 4 years. 82 convictions. And not one of those cases actually involved someone showing up to vote improperly. It's cases of election judges "breaking the law and so on ..."

You can watch Miller's interview with Bill Moyers here. 6 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmPruDNOmNk

 

Corruption is contageous, and if you allow it in one area, it makes it much harder to remove in others. Clean up ACORN and you will likely remove some of the justification for actions that the Republican party has pursued.

I have never said that they were. Not once. And if you believe so, you are not paying attention. I believe, as I have stated before, that Obama's support of ACORN has lost him more votes than he could possibly gain from voter fraud. Just as voter registration fraud does not mean vote fraud, voter registration does not mean a legitimate vote will be cast.

 

I don't think that slope is slippery enough for me to vote McCain.

 

WACKY: In post 185 (popular topic -- nice work), you said: "And registration fraud is also a crime."
I may have misunderstood.

 

That was in response to Hiptastic's comment.....

My point is that voter registration fraud is also a crime. So, the people who are risking a criminal offense for a cigarette, a hamburger, or even $8 an hour are foolish. And I think ACORN is being irresponsible by not educating their employees on the seriousness of this offense. Whether it is rectified by requiring a mandatory training program for employees, or not requiring unrealistic quotas in order to make minimum qualifications for payment. The employees that are being prosecuting are getting the worse end of the deal. Most are likely low income people looking to bring in supplemental income, and they wind up getting involved in a criminal act because of incompetance or desperation. I truly don't understand why ACORN does not clean up their image. I would guess it is top down managment issues.

No doubt. ACORN is obviously a liberal organization, and their agenda is to attempt to register as many people as possible, mainly focusing on low income level areas that would tend to vote for the Democratic party. They also instruct their employees to campaign for candidates that will further their agenda and sustain their existance. Republicans on the other hand are threatened by the possiblity of 1 million+ newly registered voters that would likely vote for the democratic party if they were to actually vote. Of course they are going to do anything possible to prevent this from happening. Politics is a filthy game. And I believe that ACORN's actions are giving the Republican party the justification they need to try and purge voters in the name of "inelligibility". Like I said, clean up ACORN and some of the voter purging issues will go away. I think people need to work together to stop the fraud on all levels.

Most of what I have said in this thread is in regard to ACORN's voter registration efforts, but I see other problems with this organization. I also have a problem with the relationship Obama has with ACORN. I think that his support of this organization is in essence supporting their actions. Now if he were to work together with ACORN to reform their practices, I would not have a problem with their voter registration efforts. Keep it clean, I don't think that is too much to ask.

 

You don't understand, or are you are being disingenuous?

 

But as I said, ACORN has an obligation to submit those registrations, and it does flag the suspect ones. People are trying to defraud ACORN, ACORN is not the one perpetrating the fraud. And there is no vote fraud.

The Republican objective is to create doubt. Keep raising the question over and over again, and ignore the answer. Its no different than fearmongers here pushing the draft or the NAU or Microsoft pushing FUD. That's the reason "we keep hearing this bullshit every fucking year".

The confusion between registration fraud and vote fraud, and the false impression that ACORN is doing it deliberately, are not accidents. They are deliberate misinformation.

Anyway its good to be on the opposite side of a debate for a change!

 

What i wonder is this: are you arguing with a tool who really believes the shit he is peddling, or is wacky deliberately bringing this up over and over again, ignoring the answer over and over again, and then starting all over in an attempt to fool someone into believing?

It's curious. I think I would guess he is a true believer, because even the McCain camp has stopped emphasizing Acorn. They have found there is too much blowback. People are genuinely worried about the major issues facing this country, and don't seem to appreciate the kinds of smear tactics that used to work when they felt they were trying to distinguish two candidates for which they had little regard.

The scales are tipping back and forth in people's minds, with differences measuring in the tons. Wacky is attempting to influence the scales of your mind with little dimebag sized lies. No wonder he's frustrated.

Wacky: you need bigger lies.

 

Wacki's cool, he doesn't have some secret malicious agenda. Its a simple disagreement.

 

I don't know about simple, but it is obviously a disagreement.

I curious about how cool people come to do that which he is doing on this board.

 

I am of the opinion that massive budget cuts would concentrate these organs ( and others ) back to core functions.

For this reason tax cuts are a good idea. De-fund the oppression.

 

Tune in on November 4th. the question is premature

The converse of this is that all of the conspiracy theorists who put forth that previous elections were stolen by Dibold have softened up Democratic thought process to the point that the ACORN fraud is found to be acceptable.

What factors gave the Dibold conspiracy such traction? What is with modern thought process that allows unresolved conspiracy theories to fester in such a way that produces such public cynicism?

 

The diebold machines were shitty machines. We shouldn't have shitty voting machines, because that would be bad. Maybe some dems took that too far. That's just politics.

 

wow... this seems so old and petty now, in light of a stunning landslide.