Dianetics?

2cool,
Do you have a family member that's a Scientologist? How did you get into it? You mentioned buying a Dianetics book at a Scn mission.Have you spent much time there otherwise,taken any courses etc? I'm just curious what you're basing your opinions on.

 

No I haven't spent much time there. But that's because I'm moving to Austin soon. But they've got a full blown church there. Soon as I get there I'm getting signed up for courses and training! How did I get into Scientology? Well I remember we had a flyer they put on our door. It sounded interesting so I went to their website. I was intrigued. So I went down to the mission, bought Dianetics, and talked to some of the people there. Very nice people. One rough looking dude had just came out of a session. I just remembered he look down and saw I was buying Dianetics looked and was like "That's a dynamite book ya got there!". I dunno, everyone was so alive and in a good mood. Well they wanted me to sign up with them but I told them I was moving soon. They said fine but they would be happy to just transfer my info to Austin when I move. But I think I'll just wait.

 

2cool,in a few different threads here you've accused people critical of Scientology of not having an open mind.If you'll pardon me saying so,you seem to have made your mind up and pretty much closed it,based on ONE SOURCE OF INFORMATION.
At least from what you post here.Personally,I believe you have your doubts.You'd be loony if you didn't.
I've tried to respond directly to some of your points,and you barely responded to any of the substance of what I wrote.My posts are still there,with lots of pointers to articles,names to Google,etc.Rather than buying the L Ron Hubbard line that anyone critical of L Ron Hubbard is an evil being or being paid off,I challenge you to have the guts and integrity to read some of the first-person accounts of former Scientologists.Or read the St Pete Times series of articles that won them a Pulitzer Prize.
If you go shopping for a car,the dealer is only going to tell you how great that model car is,for obvious reasons.If you can get on the internet and read a poll of owners of that model and how they rated it,wouldn't you want to have that information?
You said in one post that if you get into it and decide to defect,you'll warn other people about it.That's all I'm doing.

 

I have some questions yes. But I'm sure the Church would give me satisfactory answers. So far I'm impressed with what I've heard.

Mostly beacuse your posts are regurgitating the same old propoganda I've already read like: "It's a harmful cult!". I'll respond to that. The word "cult" is used so loosely these days that Jehovahs Witnesses, Zen Buhhdism, and even the Baptist Church have been accused of being cults.

I have alot better things to do with my time than read what some paranoid "anti cult" activist has to say about any religion that is created other than Christianity. I've read it all. "They are just milking the $ out of you!" "L. Ron Hubbard was a drug addict" "They will beat you if you leave!" It's all a load of crap.

Can you possibly believe if Scientology were so dysfunctional as you seem to portray it, that it would still exist today, 50 years later? They would've been squashed as a hoax and an abusive organization long ago. Within a few years they'd been shut down. But this isn't make believe land like all those nuts would like you to think. Scientology isn't this Mafia religion where extortion, harassment and murder are commonplace. This religon is sprawling all over the world BECAUSE IT WORKS! This isn't like the Raelians made up "human cloning system". L Ron Hubbard isn't like David Koresh "sinful reincarnation of Jesus". No, it's not. All religons are troubled at the start because people fear change in these areas. Anti cult activists paranoid over the next "Jonestown" become rabid in their attacks. 20 years from now I bet there will be a good 50 million members of Scientology, and attacks on the church will be non existent because it will finally have proven it's worth and it's life changing programs.

Yes and that's exactly what I will do but I honestly can't see that happening. Oh, and I do appreciate your concern about this. You don't seem like a bad person but I believe you've fallen for this trash. It's always funner to believe the worst about something rather than seeing the best in it

 

Of course they'll have satisfactory answers.That's their business.You think a Ford salesman is going to tell you that the motor is likely to crap out just when the 50,000-mile warranty is up?

I agree that the term is used too loosely.Here's how I'm using it:

From the FAQ here:the question "What kind of cults are there?" (excerpt)
"A negative cult could refer to a movement that claims to be a religion, but which in reality is harmful to its followers and/or to others."

From a later question about characteristics: (excerpt)
"Free thought and dissent may be restricted and a person may have to rely on the group's leader for all of their instruction. Group members may be subject to psychological, physical, or spiritual harm. Members may be intimated or deceived within the group or in relations with outsiders
Secrecy may be a major part of the group."

From wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
Definition by secular cult opposition:
"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgement, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community."

It's the cleverest,most ingenius con game ever invented.How many weight loss scams do you see a day if you watch TV or read a newspaper?

Good grief,all this from reading the sales pitch on the Scientology website and briefly visiting a Mission? It's definitely a tribute to the way Scn can suck a mind in.
It's true that some anti-cult people are a little nutty themselves.I don't include Time Magazine,the St Pete Times,San Francisco Chronicle.Boston Globe,etc,etc,etc,in that group.
Ditto the hundreds of ex-members who've given their accounts online.I repeat,for the last time,READ WHAT THE EX-MEMBERS SAY.
I think I'm done with this for now.You need to do your own homework at a time when you have eyes to see.
It's like you've just fallen in love,and won't listen when your friends tell you that your sweetheart is blowing every guy in town for $20.
By the way,I see my remark about "defecting" and warning people went right over your head.
-Bluesbilly Dave
Ex-Scientologist

 

Ah so your an x-Scientologsit. Well I'm sorry for whatever got in your way from reaching your full spiritual potential. Much luck to you in the future.

 

Thanks,good luck to you too.

 

Whoa.. You mean that Life itself is a cult? (God...)

 

What do you mean?

 

Umm you quoted this:

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea or thing (LIKE LIFE (God)) and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g. isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgement, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of [consequences of] leaving it, etc) designed to advance the goals of the group's leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community."

Just read that thing carefully. It describes life (God) to a tee... in a sorta funny way.

 

If you say so.I'm familiar with several meanings of the words "Life" and "God" but I've never seen them used as synonyms.
I'm not saying you're wrong.I just have no idea what the hell you mean.
The definition starts with the phrase "a group ot movement" which I take to mean a group of people.
By your reckoning is a marching band or your Mom's bridge club synonymous with the concept "Life (God)"?

 

i remember my first encounter with the scientologists.

it was great, they explained how scientology could change my life forever... how it had helped millions and how i have so much potential they can see that scientology could pull out of me with ease.
Only problem was they would tell me NOTHING about scientology, just that it saves people. i asked does it believe in God, oh its great it will help you. What are the principles behind scientology? Being great and help you. Thats ALL the could tell me. then leaving they gave me 20 leaflets walking out the door to read over before i next came back.
I FINALLY had some stuff that might tell me about scientology, but as i turned to walk out the door they said "That'll be E150 (about $175), please."
Lol...i gave them their leaflets that i never asked for back and left.
My final verdict: is Scientology a coherent and well communicated society of people, trying to help the world? NOT IN A MILLION YEARS. more like a bunch of crazies bent on taking the world over.
peace and Love

 

It's funny, how history just repeats itself. Every time a religion comes out it gets ridiculed with slander. Mormons were accused of pedophilia. Christian Science of brainwashing and extortion. Christians of Cannabalism. Roman Catholics of sacrafices and nuns being sex objects for priests. And these weren't just "rumors". It was on front pages of newspapers. These were thing being said by "actual members". Today all of those religions are floursihing. I used to get angry when people talked bad about Scientology. But now I see, it's just history repeating!

 

well, maybe except l ron hubbard started the whole dealio as a scam, eh?

 

No actually he didn't. But again this is a rumor that flew around new religions and still does to this day. But if you'll notice, you don't hear much anti Scientology propoganda these days. Cuz, just like in the past, it didn't destroy the religion.

 

here is a site of interest to any1 interested in L. Ron Hubbard
http://www.mystae.com/streams/gnosis/hubbard.html
peace and love

 

OR this

http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/6.htm

Interesting.

There's a schism in Scientology - complete with a splinter group, Freezone (which practices Scientology outside the Church of Scientology)

http://www.freezone.org/english.htm

 

Removed

 

bump

 

re dianetics



Scientific American, January 1951
By Isaac Isidor Rabi (Nobel Prize Winner)

DIANETICS: THE MODERN SCIENCE OF MENTAL HEALTH, BY L. RON HUBBARD. Hermitage House ($4.00). This volume probably contains more promises and less evidence per page than has any publication since the invention of printing.

California Institute of Technology, a review of Dianetic
"Counting noses of adherents is not evidence"

American Scientist October 1950 Hubbard:
like a "child stamping his foot"

Dr Oscar Sachs from Mt Sinai Hospital in NY
"old psychoanalytical concepts"

Milton Sapirstein: Hubbard -
"the leader of the inner manipulative clique"

Journal of the American Medical Association:
nonsensical tomfoolery

American Journal of Psychiatry:
Hubbard's own paranoid delusions

And there was a clinical test!
Clinical Test of Dianetics - FAILS!

http://www.lermanet.com/scientific.htm