So I'm having a hard time believing that an all knowing all loving God would give a Human ONE chance during ONE life to make the right choice or be eternally damned. but anyway at the moment I believe that the judgment you receive when you die will be based entirely on love... not if you accepted Jesus into your heart in front of your church... not about how many times your read your bible or prayed.... but true love. I also cant see Hell being a dark scary dungeon where you burn forever... I think on judgment day if your soul knows nothing of love you will simply be cast aside and not allowed to enter the place where the love is.. that's it, no burning just loneliness and hatred while you watch the souls who loved be loved the pastor at my mothers church started arguing with me when I said this because we started talking about Homosexuals and other religious groups but honestly do not believe it would matter in the end if you were a Homosexual or a Muslim if you lived your life loving love just because you are not christian doesn't mean you cant be a upstanding loving person why wouldn't an all knowing all loving creator love these people regardless of if they accepted Jesus as their saviour or not? idk its just hard for me to belive there is only ONE way in through ONE messiah and one million ways to get yourself damned drunk ramblings cheers
Dont worry its all just a fantasy anyway, when you die you die thats it. All humans are, are animals that evolved out of the food chain. No Heaven, No Hell No nothing just Death.
Further: Let's say you are Christian and for x years you have been steadfast in your belief and then one day you have a doubt that Jesus existed as God's son and that he martyred his life for us and that just happens to be the day of Armegeddon and you float up to the judgment podium and they say 'Sorry you believed and were loyal for so long except for today, but you cannot get in and will be tortured the rest of you life' Hmm.. reminds of the epistemology of terrorism - be afraid because we could strike at any time
You miss the "born again" thing. When you become a child of God, it's impossible to "unbecome". If there was more than one way to heaven, people would complain about it being too complicated. God made everything on this earth to point to the truth of God's deity and the Bible teaches that all men are without excuse (when it comes to the knowledge of God and God's eternal judgment. As an aside, I find the same people, who curse God for making an eternal pinishment, are the same ones who curse God for "allowing" all the evil in this world.
"why wouldn't an all knowing all loving creator love these people regardless of if they accepted Jesus as their savior or not?" Jesus said there is no way to the father except through the son. God doesn't hate a homosexual or a murderer , etc. God hates sin not the individual. The first thing you have to get your mind around about religion is that there' a reality that transcends the 4 dimensions that make up our personal reality. Reconcile this, the LHC in Europe is on the verge of proving just this. Modern physics hypothesis is that we live in 10 dimensions, 4 are knowable, time and 3 points of the axis and the other 6 are inferred . My favorite quotes: “The distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion” Einstein “Life has no meaning the moment you lose the illusion of being eternal.” Jean-Paul Sartre If you believe what most scientist's (and the bible) say about the big bang there was a beginning and according to the laws of thermodynamics there will be an ending. If you just have a layman's understanding of Einstein's relativity and the 3 laws of thermal dynamics. it's not a quantum leap to intelligent design. If you get as far as intelligent design, there must have been a designer. After that the rest should be easy.
it is about the faith , and some times if u fear it enough u may end up there , i had a friend that prayed ever day and yet she knew she was going to hell tho she was saved , she was a steadfast beliver . I Feel that if God is caring enough to have given his only son that maybe he is loving enough to see past flaws of some of creation .
That isn't to say the christian account of the designer is correct. There are other more ancient accounts which tell a different story. The vedas for example. There's absolutely no objective reason to accept the Bible account over other accounts, other then perhaps social norms of your society, and even maybe a bit of stupidity. Or even simply lack of information/education.
There is also no objective reason to reject the Bible's account over other accounts. Historically, the Bible has held up very well as a credible text.
That, as they say, is a matter of opinion. Personally, I don't think there's very much at all in the OT which has any relevance these days. Also you can use it, as has often been done, to back up unacceptable actions such as the crusades, the inquisition, slavery etc etc. The thing is though, many bible christians are in my experience totally without any knowledge of the other systems of beleif over which they claim superiority. Often they are christians only because of socitetal norms in their place of birth/up bringing.
The Old Testament has real relevance for today if it happens to be a true account of origins and history (and as you and the Bible both say, "it's a matter of opinion/faith"). I'd say anything can be used to back up unacceptable actions and I'd say there's been plenty of other books written by men that've been used that way---Marks, Tito, Hitler.....etc. Sometimes the societal norms and parental upbringing are the truth, just as sometimes they're not, societal normalcy and upbringing have nothing to do with whether a particular belief is true/superior.
Jean-Paul Sartre was an existentialist atheist. His eternal is not the eternal you are thinking. Try not to quote out of context. "God is dead. Let us not understand by this that he does not exist or even that he no longer exists. He is dead. He spoke to us and is silent. We no longer have anything but his cadaver. Perhaps he slipped out of the world, somewhere else like the soul of a dead man. Perhaps he was only a dream...God is dead." (Jean-Paul Sartre / 1905-1980 / Situations 1 / 1947)
You can't believe it because it doesn't make any sense. Jesus was a man whose message was mainly one of peace and love for your fellow man, but even so at the end of the day he still preached that the only way, the only way to heaven was to put your faith in God. If what Christianity teaches doesn't make sense, that's because it's illogical. An illogical argument that you're expected to simply ignore because of the "faith" that's required or risk not going to heaven. There's also the argument that we as humans don't have the capacity to comprehend "the truth," and while that's probably true, at some point it becomes impossible to reconcile flawed logic. If it was all true, wouldn't it make much more sense? To quote the great philosopher George Carlin, "Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man -- living in the sky -- who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you."
In the context of Christianity, God is the pinacle of love, mercy etc, but is also the pinacle of justice. I am not going to say that this means eternal damnation for some, because 1) i am not a theologin 2) I have not delved into biblical exegesis that much and 3) I am not god so I cannot claim absolutes. Taking these things into consideration, i lean towards a purgatory system.
Perhaps this world is purgatory. Perhaps if you don't get it right this time you can look forward to another round, possibly better or worse than this round based on how you fared in this round of the game of life. Kind of like snakes and ladders purgatory system. Even if you always lose, you will eventually win by playing with those that don't now what the rules are.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. I do not think anyone can say for sure, nor will either of us be swayed either way. I think that life is linear and you think it is circular.
Actually, I don't believe what I posted, it was just speculation. All hypothesis are possible but I don't know because nobody has ever died and came back and told us the truth. Personally I think we just die and that's it, nothing afterwards. A finite linear life.
It all depends on where your love is directed. Your love for God and your personal relationship with him must be the most important thing in your life. Draw close to him and he will draw close to you. The "Hell" that you are talking about is described in the bible as nothing more than mankinds common grave. So, dont get so worried about all of that.
There is only one way to heaven. And that is through "God." I don't think the word "God" is in any way a perfect description the way most people think its meaning, but it's definitely one of the best words for the ultimate everything in life (the tao is another good one). I am not concerned about the rest of the specifics... When Jesus says "There is only one way to God and that is through me," I don't interpret that literally to mean that the name and person of Jesus is the only way. I interpret it to mean that there is only one way to God and that way is the way that Jesus preached and embodied. Perhaps there are verses which contradict my interpretation, but even if there are, that is what I believe Jesus would have actually preached. I love Jesus and the general message of his teachings (love yourself and others, don't question, stay humble, submit to God, admit that you are imperfect), but I don't consider myself a Christian in the sense that I am a Christian to the exclusion of other beliefs and that Christianity is the only way. One thing I will say about the idea that God would not give humans only one chance... I agree with that in principle, but I think it could be argued that God gives us an infinite number of chances within any one lifetime. Every moment is a new chance to renew one's gratitude, humility, faith, and spiritual strength. That said, I'm not sure if I believe in a literal idea of heaven and hell - that we die and we then go to either a good place or a bad place. It is certainly possible that such a thing exists, but I tend to gravitate toward the idea that heaven and hell exist right here, on Earth, in every moment. I think heaven is accessible to anyone who has gratitude and humility and faith, simply by loving life and being present in the moment... and similarly, it is easy to create one's own hell on Earth. People who intentionally hurt others, lie, neglect caring for themselves and others, think they know all of the answers (usually while knowing subconsciously that they are helpless and pathetic, knowledge which occasionally bubbles to the surface with disastrous results), don't follow their passions... these people are in a living hell every day, always struggling against their circumstances, experiencing and causing pain, denying reality, living in hellish fear... Most people have experienced tastes of both sides of the coin and always will, to some extent... after all, people are complicated Just my two cents.
