i found this to be very sad

I don't think anyone has the right to play God. Why can't we just stop killing. Abortion is very sad.

 

If it's humanly possible to achieve, it's not playing God for he or she or it has given us the ability and choice to do it.

I'm sure if the embryo were to grow into a child with a terrible life, God would be disappointed that there was no abortion.

 

now less likely to happen but what if he want to keep it and she doesnt. i understand it will be a rare occasion but some women here have said that they would get rid of it. what if the guy wasnt cool with that.


peace, bob

 

Well that's another tricky situation, but a guy can't force a woman to harbour anythign in her body for 9 months if she doesn't want to. He'll just have to find someone else to have his baby.

 

okay

1) you don't make up statistics in your head. you give websites and recent books and some RESOURCES that show the stats.

and 2) sex can result in a baby yes, and I full agree that people should decide on the issue beforehand.. but how does that help the people who are already in the situation?

 

I just don't trust anything from someone spewing "facts" out of their assholes. I want resources. You said you have been a Buddhist for 20 years. You should then understand my will against ignorance. I don't believe everything that's told to me. I need to see proof and to find out for myself.

I'm not saying that I want you to say 99.99% of women "do so because they are medically at risk, this is the only reason for the existance of abortion clinics, and these women never never again attempt to have another baby because they are now aware of these risks."

I'm just asking where you got your facts from.

Give it up for adoption? Sorry pal. I know people who've never met their parents and they're fucked up because of it. Sometimes it's better not to be born.

rescues and easy ways out? Of what? I'm not pregnant. I haven't got an abortion, and I never plan on it. Why would I be looking for an easy-way out? I'm just fighting for womens' rights, and the rights of babies.

Being grown means dealing with our mistakes and MAKING OUR OWN DECISIONS... whether they're "right or wrong" or in Buddhism's case, "Helping or harming". It's still the parent's choice. Not the government's.

 

until we realize that all of life is suffering abortion will still be a large conflict point. And death is terrible, yes, sad. That baby could have been the next John Lennon, it could have been the reincarnation of christ. Perhaps the future Hitler that could have sucked us all into the propaganda wheel and destroyed us all. But now it is dead, and it is for us to figure our sadness over it. We are the only ones who could feel... the fetus cannot, dont argue for the fetus- it decided to kill itself when it formed inside the body under the control of the mind that made the choice. its a rough choice.
lets keep our oars out- when we dont judgements are made, and we get sick or defensive and neither is well for our being. death is more than a part or piece it is life too.

oh, and all the people using facts right now in this little,... thing, i dunno, just quit that shit, that is ridiculous, even if it helps your little argument and swings it into your favor. You realize that you debate and argue and casually present your ideas so you can be Right? thats about it.

Come on egos, lets go to bed.

i was born into a ring of fire.

 

Very well said.. but you also understand that you just made your own arguement. It's not egos. It's the difference between rights for me.

 

Now before this continues, let's keep all god/jesus statements out of this thread, k? God and jesus have nothing to do with modern-day pregnancies AT ALL.

And with that, I continue.

Yes, I guess it is sad that babies are aborted and killed. But do you know what's even sadder? Having that baby grow up in poverty and never getting a chance to escape. Some people here may say "well you can get out of the ghetto if you stop being lazy," but the truth is that you cannot. When I lived in New York City I lived with friends in a rundown part of Harlem. My parents(not biological parents) tried their hardest to get out of there so their newborn son wouldn't be subjected to gang life and drugs and food stamps. But once you are in places of poverty like that, it's nearly impossible to get to a place that isn't poverty-stricken. The sad reality is that once you are living in poverty, unless you have rich relatives, is that you will always be in poverty. I have no idea on the abortion statistics, but I am guessing most of them come from inner-city women, women who are already having a tough time providing food for themselves and with a baby it would be more impossible. If these babies can somehow beat starvation through childhood, they will turn to gang life and end up in prison. Why do you think that nearly everybody in prison is poor and not-white? Women should have the right to get an abortion no matter what the reason.

Anyone who replies from now on, keep god/jesus crap out of this thread and think about the real world.

 

I think legal abortion is a good thing. What if you are raped, or are pregnant at a young age and your parents don't want to raise it, or you don't make enough money to support it, or are a drug addict... There's also the factor of not being wanted, if a child knows it's not wanted, or worse, when his or her parents neglect or mistreat him, will he be happy with his life?

Of course I can not be totally in favour of abortion, I don't think anyone can on matters as grave and serious as this. As a woman you shouldn't be able to live a wild life and sleep with every man in sight and not be afraid to be pregnant because "well I can get it removed, can't I?" I think it's the parents' responsibility to prevent unwanted pregnancies instead of getting rid of them.

It's a difficult situation, but I'm still on the pro side. If my girlfriend or wife would get pregnant and wants to have an abortion I'd call it her decision, because she'll be the one having to carry it around for nine months.

 

Open your mind. 208 Iraqis who had LIVES ALREADY died. They had children and cousins and schoolwork and jobs. They could FEEL it. They KNEW they were either dying or about to die. Embryos have not developed a brain yet and therefor cannot FEEL neither physically nor mentally. The reason people prostest for the Iraqis is because they already had standing positions in society.

I can't believe you just called everyone cold blooded and then told them they were lazy for not getting out of their environments. Let me tell you a little something. I used to live in a ghetto, alright? And you know what? Let's say a guy who's currently living in the poor environement and adapting to its way of life (who's a hard-working, honest man) tries to get a job at McDonald's. First, he will have trouble writing a resume due to lack of proper education, then if he actually gets an interview, he'll have nothing to wear besides his street clothes and wouldn't be able to afford new clothes. So he can a)steal clothes, or get someone else to steal clothes, or b)go in street clothes.

Synario A)
He's broken the law, and furthered his bad reputation.

Synario B)
The manager will take one look at him and decide he's going to be stealing from the register.

It's HARD to get out of the poorer areas. How can you be so fucking IGNORANT? Some people just shouldn't be born. It's better to end it early when they won't feel a thing, and thus saving them from the unbelievable pain that you KNOW would be inflicted upon them.

The cold blooded ones are the ones who let them live in that situation.

 

Well, I just read all of these posts..well, sorry, not ALL. Some were just arguments I wasn't that interested in....Anyway. Of course abortion is sad. Very, very sad. But, let me tell ya. I've seen sadder things. I'm a social worker. I've seen people do awful awful things to their kids, kids get removed from filthy, awful homes where there's no food, etc. THAT is a crime.

We can talk about adoption all day long, and yes, its a great option. But, what if you're black and addicted to crack? What if you're not very smart, and neither is the father of your baby? What if you're hispanic and nobody you know speaks good english? Do you think that your baby is going to be desirable to the rich white people that want (and can afford) a child? I'll just answer the question: NO! Rich white people that want to adopt babies want a sweet pink bundle that kind of looks like their family, that has a good chance of succes. Believe me! I see black, hispanic, poor white children with developmental delays all day long. Nobody wants to adopt those kids! They're usually in substandard foster care until they're old enough to get themselves in trouble and go to juvenile detention centers or prisons. And then what?

Come ON. I hate the idea of abortion. I DO feel for that fetus, and I do believe the the value of life...all life. And I pray for a day in the future where life is so valued that there are never unwanted pregnancies and that we care for our children and do not allow them to be led into lives of crime and poverty. But folks, we ain't there.

And...as an aside....I'm just thinkin' out loud here, but...how can the people who are anti-abortion because of the whole sanctity of life thing be pro-war in Iraq, anti-stem cell research, anti-welfare, the list goes on and on......

 

It's got neoconservative hypocrisy. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

 

for some people god/jesus crap is the only reason anything at all occurs. And if so then they have all (under these beliefs) ALL i say, to do with any pregnancy.

Abortion is a topic so debated because people find that is wrong or right due to what they believe in. this cannot be denied. If people didnt use their beliefs to fight for this argument, it would have ended a long time ago (not that this is in any way bad-- cause hey, soul rebel, some one said "stand up for your rights... dont give up the fight" we wont just be handed any resolve here, it will be the ongoing evermore discussion, and it will never cease.)

im not pessimistic, i am a believer, and once things are achieved what would i fight for and believe in. i wouldnt and things would be content and slip slip slip slip slipslip. man o man


i apologixe. i sort of read it and then write it.

 

I don't think the argument should be about abortion at all. I oppose abortion, I think the emotional trauma would offset any possible gain from an abortion. However, I realize that this is my moral belief, and I have no right to impose my morals on anyone else. This is why I am, and always will be, supportive of a woman's right to choose. Now, to save people the trouble of asking, I will say it right now: I do not believe abortion is murder.

Peace, Alex

 

"supportive of a women's right to choose".

AMEN

 

individual choice.......if you want to see women stop termination give her a future and a real education....I am 100% pro choice

 

What? Is this what I said? Absolutely NOT. I said that if we're trying to say that women who want to abort should love their children enough to consider adoption, we are NAIVE AND STUPID. THAT is what I said. RICH WHITE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ADOPT BABIES DO NOT WANT TO ADOPT MINORITY CRACK BABIES. It is a fact. I see it every day.

And with that being the case, why should the mother not be allowed to choose to end the pregnancy?

 

I'd like to say this. If the weird-O right wing conservatives out there are so against abortion, why are they also (in most cases) against sex education, free birth control and condoms, etc, etc.? Is it a right-wing conspiracy to over-populate the world? What the HELL is going on here??????

Sometimes I look around and all I can do is cry. We are in such a sad state of affairs, and those who weild the power and the money just want to stick their heads in the sand and decry the loss of life, the loss of family values......I think I'm going to puke.

 

Soul Rebel....is that you in your sig? You're totally cute....even if you are only seventeen!