Stand With Us to Victory

If being brainwashed means we are tired of being in a war that we shouldnt be in, and no matter who is president we are STUCK there, having a pathetic beady-eyed piece of shit stand up there look in the camera and tell us..that we were going to war in Iraq because they have Weapons of Mass Destruction..and that he was going after the people that attacked us and would NOT rest til we got Osama, then said later on, he didnt know where Osama is, nor does he care, THEN YES OMG I am so fuckin brainwashed..If being brainwashed means, to NOT have faith in our President because of all the lies he has force fed us..because at one time, I TRUSTED THIS IDIOT!!! Then Yes, im brainwashed, if being brainwashed means, I want a better America and that I am optimistic if we get this dumbass out of office, and have Kerry in there, THEN YES IM BRAINWASHED..I'm sick of being divided, how can you be UNITED under this mess that has been created?! I don't care anymore if anyone gets offended by what i am saying..I do NOT like Bush, he fucked up our country and I'd rather be brainwashed with the HOPE Of a better tomorrow, then to keep bush here and not know what is going to happen the next day..if there will even be a next day. I wonder how the hell this moron can go to sleep at night, with the thought of everything that his "CHOICES" have created...i guess you are right tho..I am angry..I am angry that i was so betrayed by someone that was supposed to lead our country, someone that we were supposed to TRUST and instead has got us over in a war with our brave soldiers that are stuck over there because of "WMD's"..We never hear what they have to say..NEVER.. .there are some, that i have heard on the news that have gotten hurt, such as lost a limb, and can not work, that say their familes are living homeless because they got their checks taken away, because there was a CUT in the VA Benefits, so look at what happens to the ones hurt, or mame in this war who risked their lives to protect OURS., this makes me sick!..I have spoken to a few,and they told me that they are DRILLED everyday, "at least we know they don't have weapons of mass destruction".hmm we KNOW now they don't have wmd's we went to war, killed thousands of people including getting over a thousand of our soldiers killed..but at LEAST we know they don't have WMD's now...yeah, good reason to go to war!

 

No, the terrorists that blow themselves up around Americans and around "THEIR OWN PEOPLE" have cause the death of American soldiers. Hell, over half of the inocent life you talk about being lost is done so by the terrorists, not the Americans.

 

Me: " Our "president" has caused the death of more than eleven hundred American soldiers"

No

Yes. They were sent into the streets and homes of another nation and ordered to find something (WMDs) that didn't exist. Their deaths were the result- just as so many people had warned.

Now, Bush defenders say "Look, they're TUR ists! SEE?! We HAD to go over there! Seee?!" Translates to "we were justified in going over there to fight those who sprung up to fight us for going over there."

Bush lied, and now many thousands of American families are living through unspeakable horror. Pat yourselves on the back, Bush fans. You must feel really proud.

 

Bush didn't lie you nitwit. He went with the inteligince that was brought to him. As did congress, and every other political head in our government. How can you be this spid to think all the countries problems are his fault? If you care so much about humna life, why didn't you bitch and complain about Sadam killing all those Kurds? Hell, lets bring the issues here, why don't you bitch and complain about all the life lost to drunk driving? I'll tell you why, because you are narrow minded and have bush vision...everything you see you see a fault in Bush. Well, lets see how pissed you get when Kerry doesn't pull the soldiers out of Iraq.

 

Because it's our Manifest Destiny Damnit

 

This is one of the most crooked and corrupt presidential terms in the last 30 years.

I'd rather have Kerry in office than Bush. Sure we live in a democracy and you can vote for whoever you want, but reality is a bitch and our political system pretty much only recognises two parties, and that isn't going to change anytime soon.

If you want to waist your vote go ahead. If you really care about the future though step one is getting Bush out of office. Our nation will progress much faster under a Democrats watch than under a republicans. Our political system will evolve with the times that is for sure but knowingly throwing away your vote in what is sure to go down as a really close election is stupid.

 

Even if we accept your premise that Bush didn't lie, Wolfowitz (Asst. Sec. Defense) has been pushing for removing Saddam since the mid-90s. On 9/12/01, Rumsfeld pushed to look in the direction of Iraq. The much bigger issue here is not that there was intelligence that suggested Saddam had WMD; but rather, there was considerable contrary intelligence suggesting otherwise. Not only did this administration consistently demonstrate a staggering level of wooden-headedness in ignoring opinions that differed with its mind-set, it also went forward with intelligence that was clearly debunked before it reached Bush's State of the Union address.

Concurrently, those in this administration who did not toe the party line were marginalized or removed. Terrorism expert Richard Clarke (who worked for Reagan, Clinton, and GW Bush) was "out of the loop" when discussions began after 9/11 because he disagreed that Saddam was where to look. Paul O'Neill (former Sec. of Treasury) said that cabinet meetings in early 2001 were focused on Saddam (he was later forced to resign). Gen. Shinseki, who said that we would need 350,000 troops in Iraq, had his retirement announced months before it happened (turning him into a "lame duck" general). This atmosphere created by this administration created the tendency of underlings to bring only the intelligence they thought Bush wanted to hear.

The reason for going to war when we did was because of supposed WMDs; any other reason given after the fact is a red herring.

Kerry will not pull out the troops immediately and has never said he would, but he is certainly better suited to bring others in to help than the man who succeeded in turning nearly worldwide support for the U.S. after 9/11 into nearly worldwide condemnation of our actions.

 

Garp, I wouldnt bother attempting to reason with Bandit. This has all been told to him and is clearly known and repeatedly documented by any who have followed this administration's actions and the PNAC agenda which they have lusted after the realisation of since their plans were delayed by the failure of Bush Sr. to win reelection.

I have even gone so far as to suggest to Bandit that he read Brzezinski's book The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives (1998) which goes even further in spelling out precisely the actions we have seen pursued by this administration in more minute detail than does the PNAC founding report "Rebuilding America's Defenses".

Yet all Bandit and those of his dismissive ilk choose to do is call it all "conspiracy theory" regardless of the utterly unambiguous demonstrations of precisely what those plans call for in the events which unfolded since 911 (the very "catastrophic event" called for by the PNAC report).

Nevermind that Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, Wolfowitz and Perle (to name a few) all have worked and schemed together since the Nixon administration in guiding US foreign and domestic policy to achieve ultimately the unrestrained use of US military might to secure US control and domination of the resource wealth of central Asia. Such political-historic contextualisation is lost on him and those like him since it can't be explained in a one minute tv news segment before the commercial break.

Anything and anyone who attempts to show how the dots are connected and progressively realised rather than being isolated non-related events each in their own neat and easily forgotten timeframes, are merely conspiracy nuts who can't possibly know what they are talking about.

Best to let such willfully blind ignoramuses just wave their flags and live in their heavily propagandised delusions. When the reality of what we nutcases have been warning about finally comes to pass and the neocons finish dismantling what few remaining Constitutional protections still exist, we'll have these status quo supporting goons to thank for clinging to and defending (even voting for) those who have shown themselves repeatedly to be nothing more than elite-serving, powerhungry liars.

They dont want to learn the truth. The lies are much more easily swallowed.

 

I agree that the war on drugs is not necessary and is wrong, BUT how can that be the main issue you vote on? Even if you've had a personal experience involving the DEA, I don't understand how that can be the number one issue for you considering the other very important issues we are facing today.
I really think your Libertarian vote will be overlooked, especially in this election where there is so much attention being paid to the two main parties.

 

Thanks for the heads up. I do indeed feel like I am shouting into a vacuum when I speak to some who cannot see the reality and results of neoconservative foreign policy.

 

Again Lick, if you all this is so, why don't you do something instead of hiding behind a computer screen typing?

 

Bush didn't lie you nitwit. He went with the inteligince that was brought to him.

Yes, the "inteligince" of George W. Bush led him to warn us that Iraq was about to launch a "nukyuller" attack that would obliterate the USA. Mushroom clouds and all that. As a result of his blatant lying, eleven hundred American soldiers are dead, and more than ten thousand Iraqi civilians. Numbers like that make Usama bin-Laden look like Mother F'ing Theresa compared with Bush. But Bush has mostly killed brown people, so of course the RepubliNazis are pretty much okay with things.

BTW... even Hitler didn't kill as many people in his first four years as leader of Germany, did he? That would be 1933, '34, '35, and '36. Hell, Bush is way ahead of Hitler- ole Adolf had been in charge for like six years before launching the first invasion of another nation.

If you care so much about humna life, why didn't you bitch and complain about Sadam killing all those Kurds?

Insert picture of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand. It's embarrassing that all these body dumps are being found, knowing that a Republican president was stroking Saddam's joystick during those massacres.

why don't you bitch and complain about all the life lost to drunk driving?

More people are killed by drunk drivers than by "Tursts." Oh yeah, and Bush/Cheney have three DUI convictions between them.

 

I do plenty Bandit. I dont post every hour on the hour now do I? Youre consistently telling everyone else to go out and do something, what about your own lazy ass?

FYI I work with a number of international NGO's (amongst other clients) on issues ranging from local development to alternative energy to workers' rights. Im hardly impressed or intimidated by a dismissive hack who has likely never experienced the world outside the US and who gets his misinformation from right wing talk radio (governed almost exclusively coast to coast by Clear Channel).

Perhaps when you bother to read the works suggested to you and learn the truth of what you sadly dismiss as "conspiracy theory" you might actually be worth debating with. For now, all youve shown is the cozy groupthink ignorance in which far too many in the US are smugly and arrogantly preferring to dwell.

 

And I would suggest to you to open your eyes to the reality of this situation. The "war" on terrorism is a myth. Terrorism is a tactic, not a country. To use a medical analogy, it is a symptom rather than the disease. Treating the symptom alone will not cure the disease. Going into Iraq has simply inflamed the region, creating more of the resentment that caused people to become terrorists against us in the first place.

Haven't we learned anything from the many years that Israel has used these same tactics to fight Palestinians? With every attack on insurgents, we kill some of them. We also kill innocent civilians whose family members become part of the insurgency.

Iraqis are not uneducated people. Many who wanted Saddam gone also realize that our reasons for removing him are not altruistic. They see this as an attempt to gain a foothold in the region. If we are not able to hold one in Saudi Arabia (remember 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers and Osama bin Laden are Suadis) through our mutual investments with the House of Saud, we will simply bully our way to a foothold by attacking Iraq.

Whether it is actually our intention to do this (and I believe it is) is not the point; it is how we are perceived in the region. As much as we may not understand it, the reality of this mess is that Iraqis will stop trying to kill Americans in Iraq when we leave.

 

I think I do just as good a job as anyone else on these forums when it comes to backing stuff up. I do tell why I feel the way I feel, as you probably do, too. And don't talk to me about the media world... There are people called editors who decide what goes in and what doesn't. I never said you worked for CBS...If you'd pull your head out and pay attention to events, you would understand the pun intended behind that statement *cough DAN RATHER cough*

 

Moonjava, I have read plenty of your threads, and next to none are backed up with any evidence. You have said stuff like "John Kerry said there will be a draft" and things similar in order to make your point. Unfortunatly these are outright lies, and couldn't be backed up if you tried.

You (or anyone else) simply have to read though your past posts to see that you just make things up as you go to prove some sort of stupid point.

Below are examples of your "facts"

In fact, going though many of your recent posts it is obvious that you do not back anything you say up. Of course, with the outrageously spun claims you make, it would be impossible for you to.

 

Since when are we not allowed to post our opinions on these forums as well? This is not FACT FORUMS.COM You act as if you've never stated your opinions on here... The point I was trying to make was that most of the time people do state things on here that aren't backed up by sources... they just come from paying attention to events. I get most of my info from talk radio, and if you want to do some reading about that go to www.pointofview.net and you will see my primary source of facts. You just have your panties in a wod because not everyone likes that idiot John Kerry.

And it looks like lil' miss SeraMichele isn't the perfect poster she expects everyone else to be, either. For example:

These late term abortions count for about 1%, and are generally only done when the health of the mother is at stake.

I am saying Kerry does not want to take away anyone's right to gun ownership.

Bush made some very bad decisions in this war, and to try blame the administration before is what's lame

Typical christian holier-than thou arrogance that I was talking about. Thanks for giving me yet another example, epiphany!


Where are the reasons/ supporting evidence? Where are the sources? Where are the facts?

 

I dont vote for any party, lets face it i dont vote period. Except of course for Hustlers Beaver of the year. When it come's to politics i have a gut feeling that the american people are'nt really the ones who are doing the choosing. I think they just want people to belive that it's there votes that count, I especially dont belive in voting after seeing all the cheating with the ballots. I wont waste my time with it. Just my honest opinion on the matter:sunglasse

 

I just love your assumptions...which most of your posts are based off of. I don't support Kerry. I do, however, support honesty and truth when it comes to explaining one's point of view.

You are the one who said that you do just as good a job on these forums of backing your information up. I was simply disagreeing with you, and backing my information up with your previous posts.

And thanks for pointing out that you get all your facts from a horribly bias christian talk radio station. From the uninformed nature of your posts I think it is safe to say that they are not the best source for information.

I have respect for any conservative point of view that is actually logical and not filled with statements like "kerry wants to put saddam back in power" or "Kerry wants a one world government"

 

These are really sad examples. First off, it is obvious to anyone that the latter two are opinions of mine.

Now, the one on abortion I have backed up in previous posts, and the one on Kerry and gun ownership is common knoweldge. Kerry has not tried to change the second amendment.

I am not attacking your right ot an opinion, I am attacking the flat out lies you have presented. Kerry never said there would be a draft. He doesn't want Saddam back in power. Etc...these are just spins to make kerry look bad, and somehow get your point across. Instead you only come across looking uneducated and immature.