What Makes Virtue good?

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Living Corpse, Nov 21, 2008.

  1. Living Corpse

    Living Corpse Member

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    This can come down to a question that Socrates brings up, "What is piety?". But lets not talk about piety itself, instead, what is virtue, and what makes a virtuos act good? How does the universe/god deem one action as good and the other as bad?

    Does the universe really give a shit if you helped someone selflessly. Like helping a distressed mother look for her lost child, or helping a beggar get back on his feet?

    What makes virtue favorable to the universe?
     
  2. bthizle1

    bthizle1 Member

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    (warning this post is pretty lengthy, for that I apologize)

    Oh man...this is one of my favorite subjects...Nicomedian Ethics is one of my favorite works of all time...

    Well, this is pretty much based entirely on opinion. Take for example an individual that is in need of help. On person may help the individual because they feel that the end result (consequences) will benefit all, or create some kind of well-being. Another person may help the individual because they prescribe to the notion "Do onto others as you would have done onto yourself". One whose ethics are truly dictated by virtue (moral character) would hep the individual simply because the act itself is the "good thing to do", it's benevolent if you will.

    This scenario has helped to give examples of three outlooks on what would be considered normative ethics. Deontology, consequentialism, and virtuetism (I made that word up...basically a virtue ethicist would fall under that category)

    The universe/god doesn't have to deem an act good or bad. The central concepts of virtue are: virtue, practical wisdom and eudaimonia.To address these we must first examine what a character trait is. I personally feel our best lay word to describe it would be "disposition". A character trait is basically our disposition towards a certain "thing" (scenario, person etc...) Keep in mind a disposition itself should not be directly considered a habit, however they can evolve/form through habit. However not habit in a commonly used since, basically think of the way in which one consistently reacts to a given situation.

    Examples must be used repetitively to provide for a "human relation" to be made towards the virtue itself, so that one can understand it. So, take our notion of someone who is "honest". They cannot simply be someone that continually practices honest dealings. Here's why....because if they do so only because they fear getting caught or that honesty is the best possible policy to take, rather than considering that to do otherwise (to not be honest) would be dishonest then they are not truly the actions of that of an honest person. To explain it simply, an truly honest person realized "that would be a lie" rather than only recognizing "that would be the truth." Make sense?

    That individual truly VALUES honesty, and therefore develops an honest disposition as a result.

    So, we believe that essentially to possess a "virtue" is the equivalent of possessing a "good". However, it may act as a vice...that's where practical wisdom comes into play. One may be too generous or too courageous to the point that it takes on the role of a fault (vice). When people are to ready to accept anything it rarely brings "good". This ultimately means that ones disposition towards their very own dispositions (virtues) is of the utmost importance. For example(s):


    • If one thinks of compassion as the disposition to be moved by the sufferings of others and to act on that emotion.


    • If one thinks of courage as merely fearlessness, or the willingness to face danger, then it could lead to a truly "stupid" act due to an overly zealous disposition in regards to their so called "virtue".

    Aristotle provided an amazing example, which to this day has impacted my life in many ways. It deals with the presence of ignorance, and how practical wisdom may help us to see past that..here it is:


    • Both the virtuous adult and the nice child have good intentions, but the child is much more prone to mess things up because he is ignorant of what he needs to know in order to do what he intends.
    So, we must inform ourselves of situations/scenarios in as much of an unbiased way as possible to act virtuously. Also, finding that medium, rather than the extreme of anything (take the example of courage above) is usually best.

    Eudiamonia would basically translate to our notion of "happiness," however that can be a very misleading translation at times. Rather than discussing why, I'll just get straight to the point here. The term basically implies happiness through virtue/good values. It draws a fine line between our concept of happiness and pleasure. This is where many people do not agree...as some philosophers have stressed the need for pleasurable things in life to attain happiness, while others have made it clear that they must not be sought after (pleasurable things/feelings) as they are only temporary (fleeting) and not true happiness.

    For example:


    • Aristotle believed virtue is necessary, but not sufficient. Claiming that "external" goods are needed as well. (These are granted through luck though...)
    • Stoics (I partially consider myself one) and Plato for that matter feel both virtues and happiness are needed, while the are VERY similar and perhaps conjoin to form the same thing, they should be looked at as separate realms of "thought".
    So, what makes virtue good....well ultimately you decide.....

    (My personal thoughts should be made clear after having posted this)
     
  3. BlackBillBlake

    BlackBillBlake resigned HipForums Supporter

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    What makes 'virtue' 'good' is at least partly the structure of language.
    'Virtue' is really a particularized form of the general concept 'good'.
     
  4. Stephæ

    Stephæ Member

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    Well, the long post above may have already said it, but it's good because it makes you feel good.
     
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