Rape Shield Laws-Just or Unjust?

Men need the exact same protection as women. It all applies the same.

Are you trying to imply that I don't realize rape is a problem among men? I am very well aware, and a close male family member of mine was raped in a NYC bathroom a few years ago. The number of those occurances (even though many go unreported) are not near as large as women.

Men raping women is like an epidemic here in the US.

 

I know, I live there half of my life. But it isn't that common here in Germany. And I'm not implying that you don't know about men getting raped, it's just that the way you wrote that reply made it sound like only woman are victims.
So I just wanted to draw attention to that, since I always see books that help women recover, but they never say anything about men's gruesome experiance...it's just unfair.I know more woman are victims, but a man getting raped often is worse, like I described before. I feel bad for your family member...care to tell the story? If not I'd totally understand.

 

I think the problem that have with believing men get raped by women is that they have been indoctrinated to believe that only men can rape women, or other men. They think men can't get raped because men "always want it," but I'm sure that there are many men who have controlling and manipulative partners who use sex as a means of maintaining control. If that were the case the other way around, I do believe women would consider this rape, so how is it that a man in such a situation is not being raped.

Also, the definition of rape and sexual assault is something that has been largely defined by feminists, and since most feminists are women, it's not suprising that their definitions would not include means of sexual coercion and manipulation employed by women.

 

Here is an excellent summary of the true nature of false rape alligations; despite what feminists say, there is some evidence to suggest that the frequency is much higher than many believe.

http://www.menweb.org/throop/falsereport/kanin.html

 

REAL femenists don't blame everything on men,IMO. By defining woman beeing raped by men, and not men by woman,or men by men; would only display how weak we are. That's just idiotic. It's like saying: 'woman are weaker then men', stuff like that pisses me off.

And I totally agree with you, that's also the reason I think that it's even worse
when men get raped.--No one takes them seriously.

But I'm repeating myself...sorry.

 

Men getting raped is not a more gruesome experience then women.

But this isn't a thread about who is getting raped and why, or how much even. It is about some of the laws concerning the prosecution of rape. Not to say your topic isn't a good one, though.

 

the thought of 1 in 4 women being raped is a scary figure...i wonder if that includes statutory rape that is consentual?

 

What's the point if it does or doesn't? Is this leading to an excuse of some sort?

And it's one in four women say report that they have been raped or molested. (It is usually done in a confidential survey, so there is nothing to gain or lose for answering) and someone who is consensually having sex with a partner no matter what the age wouldn't likely claim to have been raped.

 

must you always be so defensive?

Of course its not an excuse. But i do not consider consentual sex between bf/gf's who happen to be on the wrong side of hte Age of consent laws to be rape, thats why i asked. The courts and the law think differently.

 

Right, Lyndie England is a horrible person, and was court marshalled. Her crimes were not only horrible sexual crimes, but war crimes as well.

My only point was this is not common. Awful when it happens, but not common. I will read your links and reply.

 

Wholey untrue. We are just more used to womyn being sexually assaulted. It is no worse for a male victim. Why would it be? Sexual assault is horrible for anyone it happens to.

 

ryupower, I went to your links. Unfortunately, the first one didn't work. Two of them were man on man rape (which is common, but again, the perp is a man again, not a womyn, and your other link was to "fathermag" which is a "father's rights group."
I can't take anything these groups seriously, as they often PROTECT men who rape their own daughters and blame the mothers for making up allegations.

I would like to see womyn on man rape stats from a reputable place. If you have it. I am NOT saying it doesn't happen, just that it is rare, and certainly NOT the problem that man on womyn rape is. Unless I see reputable stats to refute this.....

 

all rape is equally horrible...both can cause horrific bodily damage.

I very much doubt you'll find very many female on man forcible rapes. Biology is largely to be the cause for that though, imo.

 

Quite right. Awful thing, sexual assault, physically as well as mentally.

 

Since you're so concerned with facts, let's see some. Since when do father's rights groups "protect" men who rape their daughters???? Obviously you're just spewing they typical feminist fear-mongering clap-trap. Fathers' Rights groups exist because family law is anti-male, not because they want to protect deadbeats. Incidently, it does so happen that women do falsely accuse their ex-husbands of sexual assaulting their children--just one of many tactics employed by women to gain full custody of the children.

Incidently, I find this the height of hypocracy, since women's groups are notorious for defending women who have committed crimes of all kinds, simply because they are female.

 

Well, there's this widely publicized story:

From Gavin du Venage in Johannesburg
May 18, 2004

SOUTH Africa, where human rights groups say one in two women risks being raped, is grappling with a new twist to its biggest public health problem: women who rape men, often at gunpoint, in a deliberate attempt to infect them with AIDS.

In one recent case, a 39-year-old father of three was ambushed on his way home from work late at night on the East Rand, near Johannesburg.

Three armed women forced him to accompany them to an isolated field near his bus stop.

The man was ordered to strip and was then raped by each of the women.

The traumatised victim told police one of the women had mocked him with the words: "Welcome to the world of AIDS."

The assault was the latest in a string of similar rapes in recent months.

"This seems to be something that's becoming very common, and it seems as if revenge is the motive," said East Rand police inspector Umgau Geelbooi Hadebe, who is leading the investigation into such assaults in the region of Johannesburg.

Women rapists have been reported in other provinces. Earlier this year, a man was raped in the town of Middleburg, 150km east of Johannesburg. Similar reports have come in from KwaZuluNatal and the Western Cape.

"It looks very much like there are women who are raping men because they were infected with AIDS," Inspector Hadebe said.

"The first attack took place about Christmas time, and the victim, an 18-year-old schoolboy, was also taunted that he was now infected with AIDS.

"This is very unusual, because we're used to dealing with men raping women."

But it is not so unusual, according to Delphine Senumaga, director of People Against Women Abuse.

"Men have been rape victims for quite some time," she said. "What has changed is that men are now responding to our rape awareness campaigns - they are coming forward to report the crime, whereas before they would have been shamed into silence."

Ms Senumaga said people who discovered they had been infected with HIV, either through their partner or by rape, might be driven to seek vengeance.

"When people find they are infected with the virus they react in different ways. Some want to hit back at those they feel are responsible," she said.

UN figures show 5.2 million of South Africa's 47 million people are infected with HIV.

---------

But I doubt many men would report being raped by a woman, even in a confidential survey. First, it's humiliating, second, no one would believe him, because nobody wants to face the fact that women are very capable of commiting such evil acts. No doubt men are not raped by women with the same frequency as women are raped by men, but it does happen.

 

There is plenty of statistical information that many "Father's Rights Groups" are pedophile ran. (Seeing as more than 70% of contested custody cases go to the father, only really BAD fathers need "father's rights" groups, as the odds are with the dads from the get go.) Here is a url for an article about Warren Farrell, a "Father's RIghts "advocate" who seems to think incest is GOOD for children! I didn't want to quote the actual article, as kiddie porn might be shut down by the mods, but if you have a strong stomach, go ahead and look at this article.

http://www.gate.net/~liz/fathers/farrell2.htm


More on these groups, which I could post:

False Allegations of Abuse​

Not as Common as the Father's Rights and ​

False Allegations Groups
Want the Public to Think

​

By Trish Wilson, © 1998, revised 2002.​

All rights reserved by author​

Father's rights groups and false allegations of abuse groups such as Abuse Excuse, The A-Team, WITCHHUNT-L, and Victims of Child Abuse Laws (VOCAL) insist that the vast majority of domestic violence and child abuse allegations made by women, especially those made in the context of divorce, are malicious fabrications. Specious syndromes such as Parental Alienation Syndrome, Malicious Mother Syndrome, Lying Child Syndrome, and various "legal" approaches to "estrangement" have been promoted in order to give the misleading impression that the medical and legal communities believe that false allegations of abuse are running rampant. None of these "syndromes" is recognized by the AMA or the APA as a valid medical condition. The "legal" angle was preferred by fathers' rights groups and individuals who see that the medical angle is losing its effectiveness in the court setting. When a mother is accused of alienating her children from the father during a divorce proceeding should she attempt to bring child abuse or domestic violence to the courts' attention, she and her attorney should bring the following studies into the courtroom to show the flimsy nature of syndromes designed to condemn mothers.

These studies also show that only approximately 2% (a few studies report a range of 2 - 8%) of all cases of allegations are in fact false. Men's and fathers' rights groups prefer to lump unproven yet most likely true allegations of abuse into the bona fide false allegations category. Since a great number of these cases are very difficult to prove, the Men's Lobby doctors up its "false allegation" figure with unproven cases. In the eyes of the Men's Lobby, "unproven" equates with "false."

Myth: Mothers frequently make false allegations of sexual abuse in divorce cases in order to gain advantage in custody litigation.

Fact: "On the basis of research that has been conducted so far, it is difficult to support an assertion that there are high rates of false allegations of sexual abuse consciously made by mothers in divorce situations." [Faller, Kathleen Coulborn, David L. Corwin, and Erna Olafson, "Research on False Allegations of Sexual Abuse in Divorce," 6 The American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children Advisor 1 (Fall 192) p.9.

Fact: "[F]alse charges are infrequent, and every allegation must be taken seriously." [Association of Family and Conciliation Courts, "The Sexual Abuse Allegation Project: Final Report" (1988)]

​

According to the two best and largest studies on the subject, false allegations of sexual abuse are rare -- in the range of 2 to 8 percent [1,2]. That means the other 92%-98% are meritorious, and this 92%-98% comprised the 152,400 *substantiated* cases on record for 1993 alone [3] (and, bearing in mind that child sexual abuse is a highly *underreported* crime, these are just the cases we know about).
(look actual statistics!!!!)


1. Thoennes N, Tjaden PG: The extent, nature, and validity of sexual abuse allegations in custody/visitation disputes. Child Abuse & Neglect 14: 151-163, 1990.

2. Everson MD, Boat BW: False allegations of sexual abuse by children and adolescents. J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry 28: 230-235, 1989.

3. McCurdy K, Daro D: Current trends in child abuse reporting and fatalities: The results of the 1993 annual fifty state survey. Chicago: NCPCA, 1994.

​

Father's rights and false allegations groups claim that mothers frequently take advantage of the opportunity in custody disputes to maliciously and falsely accuse fathers of child sexual abuse. In fact, a splitting of households often gives the father both uninterrupted access to the child and the stress to move him beyond his reticence. Custody disputes in which the father has visitation thus provide two of Finklehor and Araji's four conditions for child sexual abuse to occur (the other two being emotional congruence to and sexual arousal to children).


Finally, the extensive study of 1,249 allegations by Everson and Boat found a false allegation rate of 1.6% for children under 3 years of age, 1.7% for children aged 3 to 6, 4.3% for children aged 6 to 12, and 8% for adolescents (for an age-averaged rate of 4.7%). (Everson and Boat, J. Am. Acad. Child Adolesc. Psychiatry 28, 230 (1989).)

The study of 142 cases by Faller gave a 3% false allegation rate. (K. C. Faller, Childhood Abuse: An Interdisciplinary Manual for Diagnosis, Case Management and Treatment (ColumbiaUniversity Press, New York, 1988).

Jones and McGraw found that false allegations by children represented 2% of the 439 allegations they studied (false allegations by adults gave an additional 6%). (David P. H. Jones and J. Melbourne McGraw, J. of Interpersonal Violence 2, 27 (1987).)

Contrary to myth, allegations of sexual abuse in custody proceedings are relatively rare. An American Bar Association and Association of Family and Conciliation Courts study concluded that of 9,000 custody-visitation disputes, that fewer than 2% involved allegations of sexual abuse.Moreover, they found that allegations arising in post-divorce cases were even more likely to be valid. (Association of Family and Conciliation Courts Research Unit, "Allegations of Sexual Abuse in Custody & Visitation Cases: An Empirical Study from 12 States," at 15-16 (March 1988).

​

Frequency of Divorce-Related Sex Abuse Allegations: Not True


Quoted from a report of a study by J. Pearson, Ph.D., Director of the Center for Policy Research, an independent, nonprofit organization established in l991 to research and evaluate a variety of family law and child welfare issues, from article published FAMILY LAW JOURNAL, Summer l993, Vol 27, No 2 copyright American Bar Association Family Law Section.

"Media accounts, anecdotal reports, and small clinical studies that focus on contested custody cases with sexual abuse allegations have fostered the perception that these problems are rampant and are new common weapons in the divorce arsenal.

"To assess the incidence, nature, and validity of such allegations, we had mediators and court evaluators in eight domestic relations courts keep track of all sexual abuse cases. Of the more than 9,000 families served, less than 2 percent also involved allegations of sexual abuse. The percentage range was from 1 percent to 8 percent. These patterns were consistent with findings obtained in an independent investigation conducted in the Oakland court during l985-87 where incidences of 5 and 6 percent of contested cases were discovered.

"Hence, while these allegations might be increasing, they are hardly rampant. Other popular conceptions were also called into question by this study. For example, these cases are not limited to accusations against fathers. Indeed, mothers accused the child's father in only half the cases. The rest involved third parties, mother's new partners, stepfathers, and others.

"Nor did we find that sexual abuse allegations in contested cases were more likely to be unfounded than in cases in the general population





THE FALSE PROPAGANDA OF THE FATHER'S RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND ITS DANGEROUS IMPLICATIONS FOR WOMEN AND CHILDREN

We firmly oppose the misogynist organizations that masquerade behind the sound bite of "concerned fatherhood" and use "fathers' rights" as the means to carry out criminal acts against women and children, and to gain a legal advantage to retaliate against their ex-partners in court. Consider that:

· As many as 50% of divorces involve family violence--and 70% of the men who abuse women abuse their children as well.

· Furthermore, the vast majority of fathers who contest custody rulings are men who are abusive.

Many Father's Rights groups are proponents of a bogus theory called "Parental Alienation Syndrome" developed by Richard Gardner, a psychologist who thought pedophilia was an acceptable, loving behavioral expression. Gardner's theory blames the mother for planting ideas in the child’s head when the child says they've been abused by their father. His theory, which has been taken up by Father's Rights groups, says this is an attempt by the mother to alienate the child from the father-- and that the best way for the courts to deal with such allegations is to award full custody to the father. There is no recognition within this theory that as part of the system of power and control they establish to dominate their partners, batterers routinely use the children, including threats to harm or gain custody, and attempt themselves to alienate the children from the battered spouse (usually the mother). Nor does this theory recognize that where children experience abuse and fear, any perceived "alienation" from the abuser may be a logical and direct result of his own behaviors rather than stemming from actions by the mother.

Frightfully, though the theory has never been legitimized and in fact has been widely discredited by experts, the Fathers' Rights movement has been influential enough that judges and custody evaluators often buy into this theory, or versions of it, with the result that protective parents are punished with loss of custody, and abusive and sexually abusive fathers have been awarded custody.

John Muhammad is an example of the type of "devoted Dad" that is being assisted by Fathers' Rights groups using federal funding. Clearly, this is an outrageous misuse of our tax dollars, and serves not the best interest of children, but to further institutionalize violence against women and children.

John Muhammad, a Devoted Dad?

As much as these groups harm women and children, ultimately, they harm all of society-- including men, and legitimate men's rights.



In their own words, the agenda of the Fathers' Rights movement goes far beyond a desire to parent:





The "Father's Manifesto"



"We Signatories to the Fathers' Manifesto, responding to natural and Biblical laws, in defense of our nation and our families, hereby declare and assert our patriarchal role in society. America is an experiment in freedom, and the feminist experiment in freedom, under the guise of 'equality,' unleashed a panapoly of social ills which have become a cancer on our land, led to the moral and economic destruction of our nation, made America a house divided unto itself, created a vast underclass with a bleak and bankrupt future, and is the greatest national disaster we have ever faced.

"Recognizing patriarchy to be the greatest creator of wealth, prosperity, and stability civilization has ever known, we hereby demand that our children, homes, lives, liberty, and property be unconditionally restored to us. We hereby demand replacement of the doctrine of Parens Patria with the Biblical doctrines upon which this nation was founded. We hereby recognize and reaffirm that patriarchy is the order established under God and His Natural Law.

"We, the posterity of this nation, hereby reclaim our ancestral liberties and God-given rights."


What a load of shit this "Parental Alienation Syndrone is." GIve it up, jiimaan, you are wrong.

 

I'm not sure how this proves that father's rights groups are a haven for pedophiles. I think the real issue here is that the feminists fear men standing up for their rights when it comes to their children, because women tend to think of children as being there own since they had to bear them, hence resent the fact that the man that they now loathe will continue to have access to the children. Just like false abuse alligations, accusations that men standing up for their rights are really just pedophiles, is another example of how women operate.

As for you extensive "proof" about false abuse alligations, I'm sorry, but I don't consider feminist propaganda to be "proof" at all. Honestly, do you expect me to believe anything that these people say. Feminists are notorious for distoring and fabricating statistics, that they have little to no credibility.

False abuse alligations are a common occurence in divorce cases, and false rape alligations in gneral are in 40% range. The fact that feminists deny or ignore these truths speaks volumes about their supposed concern for equality and justice.

 

Whoever said men geting raped is more gruesome than women is just wrong. My gf was absolutely battered by 2 men a year and a half ago. I hate to be so vulgar about it, but they really messed her up. And they didn't do anything different to her than they could a man. And she still isn't the same. Rape is horrible for anyone it happens to. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't applied any thought to the subject.

 

So basically what you're saying is that a man who experiences abuse is less traumatized by it than women? Men may internalize it more readily than women, and appear to be "normal," but really they're hurting. The thing is, we've come to accept as "normal" many behaviours that are resultant from experiencing abuse: heavy drinking, violent behaviour, drug use, irresponsibility, promiscuity. Why don't you go find some man who was abused as a child, or was even the victim of violence as an adult, and ask him yourself how much it still traumatizes him.