is religion for living in the world, ignoring the world, or just for dying?

So you would say that telling a child stories of a place where they will be tortured forever if they don't believe is a perfectly fine way to "educate" them on the finer points of life?


It's not a good thing to lie to children.

 

Yes. Yes, actually, it is. Because they are children and do not have the maturity and sense of danger to understand that they shouldn't go into the woods because they'd be fucked if something bad happened to them. So you tell them a scary witch lives in there, and they believe that, and then later they learn that there isn't one but by that point they're old enough to be trusted.

 

Couldn't you just tell them the truth as to why you don't want them in the forest?

Why wouldn't you want them in the forest anyways?

Maybe because one day when you were young someone like you said the same thing to you?

Couldn't scary witch just be forgotten about and you tell them the REAL reason if any that you don't want them out in the woods.


I know it's a rhetorical question.

 

Nope, for the same reason I said. They wouldn't understand because children have little sense of their own vulnerability.

Because it's a long way from anyone who'd be able to help them if they got into trouble, and a more dangerous place than In The Yard Where I Can Keep An Eye On You?

Probably they did, yes. Which of course makes it totally wrong, right?

No. They benefit from figuring it out for themselves and you want to make sure that that happens at a time when they're responsible enough not to be damaged permanently by the experience. It is really just a crime against reality for someone to believe a fairy story at 5 and know the truth at 15 than be told the truth at 5, not believe it, and get raped by a hobo?

Just saying?

 

In case you don't know this, some people when lied to for the first portion of their life have a hard time adjusting to the "real" world they have been censored from.

A bear is more scary than a witch and they really do live in the woods and it really would be dangerous to a kid! Why not use a system at least GROUNDED in reality?

 

Who? Who has had this problem?

Because if you tell them about something real, they can prove the real thing isn't there. If you tell them there's a bear in the woods, and then a few days later the kid sees that someone's shot a bear in the woods, you think they're fine?

And okay, let's say you claim it's a bear rather than a witch. It's still a lie! (I'm talking about the UK, here).

I mean, okay, pretend you're in the UK. There's nothing more immediately scary in our woods than falling down a hole, breaking your leg, and being stuck there for days in excruciating agony hoping that someone will hear your screams before you black out. Are you going to tell your kids that, and hope that they just accept that the risk of it happening is not worth it? Or are you going to lie to them and tell them there's a bear in the woods when there isn't.

 

So you think it's ok to control children using lies when the truth can be just as effective?

 

No, I think it's okay to control children using lies when the truth WOULD NOT be effective. I think I made that very clear with my last post.

 

No you didn't make that clear, I think what you said was that you didn't have bears where you lived or something completely oblivious to the fact that the question in general was a rhetorical one.

 

oooh, mister snippy.


My point was that someone's probably not very likely to get mauled by a bear in the forest either. They're far more likely to get lost or hurt themselves and not be able to get help, and that's the real reason you don't want them going in there until they're old enough to understand these risks.

Why is it okay to lie to people as long as it's not about the supernatural?

 

So are you saying that the forest in question really isn't all that dangerous?

 

no, I'm saying that we lie about it presenting a more immediate danger that people can easily understand and visualise, because the actual danger it presents is harder to "sell" as an idea.

 

i believe in very little but that is something i definitely do NOT believe in

people should play

 

how did this end up about forests?

 

You.
You are not known to yourself. You cannot be known to yourself, and nor can you know any other.

So, by your definition, then, you are supernatural.

Are you a fool for believing yourself to exist? or do you not exist?

 

Sure, lie to children, because that builds trusting relationships.

If you have a relationship with your god, that's your deal, but it's time to decide which bond you want to be stronger, the one between you and your god, or the one between you and your children.

People put their children 2nd all the time. It pisses me off but it's socially acceptable, so quit trying to explain it and just be one of the masses already.

 

I was trying to illustrate to Rude why lying can be noble.

 

I think kids are harmed more by parental indifference than lies.

 

You don't think lies come from indifference?

 

What I find ironic about your post is that you and another poster on these threads, Relaxx, seem pretty dogmatic in your assertions about religion when you really don't know. Obviously, you think you know, when you don't. You're going on the basis of your personal impressions, and dogmatizing these as "the Truth". The same is true of lots of religious folks. I think you'd both go farther by qualifying your assertions. You wouldn't be written off as cranks so easily.