i believe in God, but my friend doesnt, this upsets me alot, if he goes to hell, and if i go to heaven, then i will never see him again. hes like my best friend, i dont want to make him feel like im forcing the subject on him, so what can i do, i know praying helps, but i feel thats not enough. please help me, i love him so much, i dont want to lose him.
Oh, he's not going to hell. A place called Hell or the lake of fire truely does not exist. In the after life I dont think you'll remember him anyway.
youre 14, chances are youll lose him far before you die. then again many dont, but IMO theres no afterlife so i cant contribute anymore
Basically, that is all you can do, hun. Just keep it in prayer. Fast and pray. Travail (when you cry out to God). Ask him to give your friend the conviction in his heart. Just keep showing him, he may come around.
As an addition to Epiphany's post you can also be a good example of a christian...people can learn alot about Gods love by the way christians act. Keep being yourself with God and your friend will notice. However, prayer is the key Persevere, God Bless, roly.xxx
the best we can do is show our frends wot god is odin in our life......worship god and stand strong we things are good and wen things are real bad,its in times of struggle that wen we lean on god,ppl realise we hav something solid to stand on! even if they dont understant it,they want that strength for themselves. keep livin the way god has led u to,keep on prayin for ure frend and dnt give up on him.wen u do talk to him bout god dnt feel discouraged if he rejects christ,its not because of u,its then that we maust leave it for the holy spirit to wrok on him
Door_67 Please...do one thing....Prove to yourself...by your own mind that there is a hell. Occam suggests there is not. And can show you why... The idea of hell is ABSURD. And.. There is NO-THING in this human world that is evidence for the existance of hell. Your friend is in no danger of going to hell As occam is not... Evil exists in humam actions and desire, and nowhere else. Demons and demonic spirits....HoHo... Where...? In movies? In third class fiction like the bible..? Humans kill because they want to ,, not because of some stupid idea of hell and demons. We dont like this idea because it suggests any of us can kill. And we can. A mother will kill any who try to kill her child. The bible says this is wrong... The bible is wrong... Will YOU give your child to a psychotic killer? will you turn the other cheek... Only ,, if you are sheep. Are you a sheep...or do you believe your child has INHERENT rights to live...? THAT is the path of reason...not religion. Not the path of sheep Reason and agnosticism say...Every human has the absolute inherent right to live. Reason Knew this way before the bible or christ. And christ knew that. Religion says we should be as the lamb..to be slaughtered... You can take that path... But so do sheep. And sheep are what by their nature? Food Occam
Under Hobbes, the child has rights to EVERYTHING. These rights are immediately stripped of him as he is forced unwillingly into the social contract. Anyway, just wanted to point out that reason doesn't necessarily lead to the idea of inherent rights. It is an extension of your worldview, NOT of logic. By that I mean that it doesn't necessarily follow that mere existence imbues rights. It is entirely possible that there is no such thing as rights (a right, of course, being an obligation that society has toward an individual). It is entirely possible that a society owes nothing to its citizens and that there are, therefore, no inherent rights.
what has reason and agnosticism given to us? an easy way out of explaining an alternative to God? Coz ur scared? Coz ur wrong? hoho....funny u shud mention sheep.... u cant say that demonic spirits dont exist if people have seen them....taht in its self is absurd...testifying AGAINST a persons experience? Ur obviously searching for some kind of meaning...or else you would not be here....i hope you find it
Doors_67 I understand your concerns, however think of this... If hell is meant to be a place where God is not, then surely it cannot exist. If darkness is where light is not, then darkness was not created, it is a consequence of there being no light. The consequence of being no God in a place is that it doesnt exist, because God created everything! That doesnt solve your problem however... Pray and trust God to do his thing in your friend. We have no power to do anything without God first moving in us.. so pray that God would move in your friend first and pray your friend would respond to that! God gets a bad pres because of the hell issue so much, many Christians use this concept to scaremonger people into following God... Our focus should be running towards God, not running away from hell! Evangelicals need a good kick up the ass... (i mean bum) sometimes!
Please stop what you would call "forcing your religion" I'll use a similar excuse they give me in the atheism forum: Remember this a Christian forum.
JD4U, some Christians dont think a hell exists! And lets be honest here, the burden is on Christianity to prove to a sceptical world Christ is relevant, so Sign related has every right to post what he posts. The ability to debate with respect is a sign of an educated person. Lets not look like bafoons!
This is an example of the stupidity that keeps me away from these forums for weeks at a time. There are many agnostics and atheists that would love to believe in God. I'm one of them. People have also seen leprechauns, ghosts, purple gorillas, angels, cupid, and a list of all sorts of other silly things. The probability that they are either lying, mistaken, or delusional is far greater then them actually having seen these things. And how, exactly, are they to see angels and demons in the first place? Angels and demons are immaterial spirits - not physical entities. Your understanding of spiritualism is child-like. Not only this, but there are entire organizations out there, both sceptical and neutral alike, that try day in and day out to find genuine cases of spirituality actualized. Thus far, there have been no genuine cases recorded to date. Further - Why, exactly, would an atheist or agnostic be scared if a God existed? Isn't that one of the ultimate comforts? A divine, all-powerful being who loves you, wants the best for you, and watches over you all of your life? And if you simply believe in him, and make an attempt at being moral in life, you're granted eternal well-being and happiness? Are you going to provide the classic absurd argument that we reject God because we're immoral, or want to be immoral? If so, would you like to explain how statistics show over 96% of prison inmates are Christians - and what about the 4% left - they could be muslims, jews, etc. etc. Where is this large percentage of immoral non-theists if that is in fact what non-theism amounts to? I'm predicting the no-true-scotsman answer to this - which again would show your lack of intelligence. Perhaps you could also explain away the many atheists and agnostics that do great things in the world - promoting freedom of thought and expression - for example, Reginald Finley, a friend of mine? And if you don't support the dumb ass idea that non-believers are immoral people, or want to be immoral, what motive then would you say agnostics or atheists have in rejecting god-belief? The vast majority of us are not applicable to your lame attacks. Occam and I both hold to the idea that meaning is subjective. I've already found my meaning in life - and I come here nonetheless. My reasons for coming here have nothing to do with needing to find some sort of mystic, objective meaning to life itself, or because I feel I'm wrong, etc. etc. I come here because I enjoy discussing and debating with people of like minds and different minds. And judging from the many posts I've read from Occam, he feels the same way. Your attacks are amateur. Go learn something before trying to respond to sceptical posts such as Occam's. -------- Now, as for the person who started this thread. I think you should ask yourself how you're able to believe in a god that is all-loving, and yet would send your friend to burn in hell-fire to writhe in pain for all of eternity. There are people who've tried to justify this idea throughout history - Aquinas, in modern day Strobel, and many others - to no avail. There have been provided answers that because God is infinite he only acts in the infinite and any crime against him in infinite, thus meriting infinite punishment. But this is absurd - because the Bible itself discusses God acting in the finite, and the transgressions against God's law are made in a temporal time frame. There's been no sound justification provided throughout the past centuries - maybe the reason being because there is no sound justification? Instead of just closing your mind and praying to God about your friend - and providing as a "good Christian example" - perhaps you should talk to your friend, and ask him why he doesn't believe in God. Maybe he has some sensible reasons, that you haven't thought of yet? And if his reasons aren't sensible, then you can show him where he is at fault - and the both of you can explore what the truth is together to the best of your abilities. That's all I have to say at the moment. - Laz
Well these "Christians" that don't believe in hell don't believe in what God says... The burden is on the the Christian to prove that the Bible is true? Remember a true christian is good either way... If the Bible is true and there is a heaven and a hell they are safe and if there isn't they are still OK. Where as a nonbeliever only has the second option.... so they better be sure there is no God. And by the way... I am just giving you the excuses I get from the atheist on their forum.
"Well these "Christians" that don't believe in hell don't believe in what God says..." Thats a huge generalisation... Jesus used stories to tell most of what he was talking about.. he used parables to explain the secrets hidden in the world from the time of creation... Maybe just maybe hell as we percieve it is not the hell Jesus told us about. Let me ask you this... would a God who loves us so much allow a place where suffering goes on forever? Who does the idea of Hell (as in fire eternal suffering) suit the most? Could it be that the Church in its early stage created the idea of hell to scare its people? What do people like Augustine say about hell... Augustine the man whos teachings our Church is founded on... how have they been twisted to suuit a political Church system? Does the idea that if you dont choose Jesus, you dont even GET eternal life not fit with the Bible (therefore no Jesus equals no eternal life of any kind) If any of the above contradicts the Bible, then question it for sure... but sometimes we Christians just sit in our pews and accept blindly whatthe guy in the pulpit says! If Christianity is apersonal faith... LETS GET PERSONAL and interpret some stuff for ourselves and dont just accept everything were told without question!
I think you are missing one option. What if you are following the wrong religion? Then you could very well end up in hell. I think we are all totally safe from any hell besides one we might make for ourselves here on earth. Atheists, and all religions, all are safe, in my view.
