Gov't Intervention Won't Last

LOL – you are still not addressing the criticisms all you are doing is saying Milton Friedman thought markets were “the most effecient way to run an economy”

Well like yeah, he would wouldn’t he, I mean even after the Chile disaster he still thought his ideas were fantastic, even when they caused pain and misery in many other counties he still thought his ideas were wonderful.

Anyway you’re being disingenuous – you say neo-liberals acknowledged that there could be down turns, they did, but they then gave the impression that neo-liberalism couldn’t crash or could deal with a crash.

The thing is it couldn’t.

And when the inevitable crash came they demanded public money to bail them out.

So the ‘focus’ of this thread is not that neo-liberalism should return but whether it should be allowed to return, seeing that it causes dangers and instabilities that it cannot resolve.

As I’ve pointed out twice now (and you’ve ignored twice) - the neo-liberals don’t seem to have any idea how to deal with a crash (besides letting everything fall) and so in this crisis seem to have turned to a corrupted form of Keynesianism, that bails out wealth without the benefits normal Keynesianism brings to society as a whole.

A system of neo-liberalism in good times and bail out Keynesianism in bad times would only ever serve wealth and would eventually bleed a country dry leaving only wealth standing, it is untenable.

And that is what you seem to want, the untenable, and I wonder why?

 

Agreed, but then the imperialists who benefit from it are multi-national, loyal to no one and no country, why should they care?

 

Well I don’t know if Motion is away but I suspect that once again he is unable to defend the things he posted and has run away. The thing is, I have the horrible feeling that he, like many other neo-liberals, hasn’t changed his mind over this failed and un-defendable economic model, but instead will push it at the next opportunity.

**

Mellow

I agree that many of the people that have gained from these years of neo-liberal ascendency are ‘global’ but that is why I believe that we should be looking to set up global policies.

Here is one example from the past -
Do the elite crave or fear a global government?
http://www.hipforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186916

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A good start would be the closing down of tax havens (and I’m keeping an eye on Obama who has said he wants to do just that).

Tax havens cause poverty http://www.taxjustice.net/cms/front_content.php?idcat=2#2

Offshore tax havens: crackdown
http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/features/2231387/offshore-tax-havens-crackdown

 

That's what people said after the Savings and Loan Scandal back in the 80s and 90s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savings_and_loan_crisis

.

 

Yet the same bookkeeping loopholes exist, and I am hearing an increasing loud noise that oversight will stymie the market. So I have no great hopes in that direction.

The fact that John McCain could run for president with his links to the Keating Five just reinforced my opinion of the state of this nation's financial systems.

 

Yes, the wealth backed right wing think tanks (like the Cato Institute and the Heritage Foundation) are still pumping out the ‘free market’ message.


As I’ve said wealth made a lot of money out of neo-liberalism and they want it back but only after the average tax payer has bailed the system out enough that they don’t loose out.

For example check out this article -


Bailout Raises Libertarians' Market Value
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/24/AR2008092403209.html

These people seem to think they are in a religious crusade against evil socialism when in my opinion the bail outs (especially in the US) are just a wealth back raid on the public purse to save themselves and a free market ideology that brought us to the edge of the abyss.


My fear is that if we get out of this the free marketeers will try and paint it as not the fault of that free market ideology but the fault of ‘big government’ and will once again convince people to return to neo-liberal ways.

 

Well put, and I agree with your premise that the global elite oppose the idea of a world government, for the obvious reason they oppose the idea of government in general, because that which is socially and environmentally responsible isn't good for the bottom line. The easiest way to make money is to find loop holes and exploit them until they are discovered and closed, or when bush opens more of them, which, if we're lucky, Obama will close.

Ahhh, if only I lacked a conscience I could be a rich man...

You're not alone, it happens every time...