Economic fear-mongering

Except Bush is a puppet who could not tie his shoe, let alone speak the English language. He could not run his own life, let alone this country. He didn't run anything. He signed bills and read from a teleprompter, and that's pretty much it. It's the same for most presidents, who are nothing more than figureheads and a way to maintain the desired public image of government and the illusion of so-called "democracy."

The people who run this country -- not the puppets you see on the nightly news -- are some of the most brilliant yet diabolical people in the world. They don't make mistakes. When they make a mistake, it was more than likely designed that way.

 

arty:

And... now for something completely different!!!

 

I have to keep repeating myself. They ask my opinion and I tell them, even though they can find the answer simply by reading my posts. If I don't answer people's questions, then I am accused of avoiding a debate. So I can't win either way.

 

I know!! I think you did very well expressing yourself today. You seem collected this evening. I enjoyed reading both your thoughts on this issue.

You know, everyone gets into answering several people in a thread, so the topics easily splinter off in this Forum. I'm used to it.

I was just making a Monty Python joke because it sometimes seems like our conversations are like series of serious/humourous comedy sketches.

Anyway, I have some music I'd like to play you.

 

Once again, you're assuming that I don't get it just because I don't agree with your view of the world. Of course I don't know everything that's going on in Obama's mind or what his business associates are doing or to whom he owes favours... and yes, I only know what I hear... but the difference is I don't worry until there is a valid cause to.

If you can produce valid evidence of Obama being a puppet, and not just internet rumours dreamed up by people who make a living by fuelling other people's paranoias (you could even call them paranoia profiteers)... then I will worry. But I don't think you can do that.

So you go your whole life guessing other people's motives and proclaiming them sinister and saying that you see more than the average joe, but so far all that your theories have produced is an ever-escalating sense of an impending doom that never comes. And apparently, everything that happens is another part of it. But really, the problem isn't your politics or your 'vision', it's isolation... and an unhealthy mistrust of human nature.

I don't buy the whole 'puppet' thing AT ALL. There are just as many idealistic people seeking power in this world as there are corrupt, and corruption is not always stronger. Most of the time, people are made up of shades of grey... sure, they make decisions which are probably immoral and will only benefit themselves, but they also make decisions which benefit others. You're like that, I'm like that... and yes, most of the people in power are also like that. Human nature is complex.

Barring the existence of a James Bond-esque villain privy to an unbelievably sophisticated and seamless form of mind control, the government is made up of a lot of different kinds of powerful people... some selfish and greedy, others altruistic, and most of them seeking to benefit from their position while also appeasing the media and an ever-mistrustful public. There are just too many different forces made up of too many different kinds of people for a group of sinister puppetmasters to be capable of controlling every single aspect of them at once. Eventually, the truth will always come out.

So okay, let's just say that I buy your theory on the depression being created (but only as a theory). I could see some insider trading going on and a group of money-hungry sociopaths anxious to make a buck from a volatile market, but the global domination thing is a little hard to swallow. If that were the goal of a depression, then why did civil rights for so many minority groups actually start to improve during FDR's term?? Who stood to gain from that? And tell me... who exactly took over the world during the last great depression? And if these people are invisible to people like me, who apparently can't think critically, then doesn't it stand to reason that they've always been there, pulling the strings, making things happen, and profiting?

AND a depression isn't when all the cash moves into the hands of the rich, it's when cash stops moving altogether. The rich will always need the working class to fix their roads, to build their houses, to teach their children, to pick their fruit... it's not like the rich have super powers and can do all of these things themselves. If those people can't do those jobs, then the rich suffer too. You can have all the money in the world, but if no one is working to get you what you want, it's not worth a whole hell of a lot, is it?

 

Actually, the money could disappear...

but the resources it's value is based upon

won't.

 

The money in your pockets value is based upon nothing whatsoever.

Except the faith and stability of the US government.


Let's see how long that lasts.

Hell, the money in your pocket isn't even property of the American people...


And money, or to put it differently, wealth, does not disappear. It only changes hands.

Sorts like the law of conservation of energy. Except that some people have free license to print as much money as they please.

 

It doesn't? I was told when the market crashed that that is exactly what happens. I was trying to follow the money and find out who was getting rich.

 

The bankers.

 

But really, everything becomes dirt cheap in times of crisis, then anyone who has money saved up, or anyone who may have been expecting the crisis, can come in and buy it all up for pennies on the dollar.

 

Why did we bail them out?

 

Just because their companies are failing doesn't mean they aren't obscenely rich...

Just look at some of the bonuses they have given themselves.

IMO, a 500 thousand dollar salary cap is too much.


I was mainly referring to the rothchilds and all them crowd.

 

The problem here is that we are getting the same old brush off the same con game.

There is a lot of fear mongering and scapegoating but little in the way of constructive debate.

I think we’ve all got the sales pitch by now – government bad – politician’s bad – banker’s bad – bail out bad

But the question is what do you want to do, what do you think should be done how would you deal with this mess?

And if you haven’t a clue then don’t you think you should get one?

I mean this continuous ranting increasingly seems like infantile tantrums.

 

I think that we should just let in burn.


Fuck it.

 

Drew

What about all the ordinary people that would get hurt?

I mean the rich would have the resources to be cushioned from real hurt or would leave, so they wouldn’t be as effect by such a policy as everyone else.

 

I like Obama's appproach. He seems to be aware of what the little man is experiencing, and is willing to provide a solution that will promote their skills and allow them respect. Hard to find tax cuts as effective when you are looking at no income or job.

 

A part of me is driven by my compassion and my desire to help other people, but I think its quite clear that there isn't much we can do at this point.

I came to the realization long ago that we live in a broken system, one that doesn't work for the average person, which engenders and encourages greed and lust. This is why I say we should just let it burn, and let something else rise from the ashes.

I think there is great potential in this crisis, as it is in times of great upheaval that we evolve the most. Struggle serves to bring out the survivors in mankind, and it serves to pull people together, and to snap them out of their false sense of security.

I think what is to come is quite inevitable, and if we had wished to act, it should have taken place years ago. But, as I said, the system which we have currently only serves to breed and encourage greed and corruption.

Anyone have a match?

 

I am not willing to set fire to my neighbor's home and watch it burn. I'd rather help him put out the fire and save it if possible.

 

nice!

 

I don't know how anyone could say that Obama is just a fearmonger when people are losing their jobs, their homes, their salaries... the crisis is real, the urgency is real. If you're not afraid of living in a tent city, barely surviving on food coupons, and watching people riot because they don't think the government is helping, then you're probably on heroin.

And 'watching it burn' is something that a kid who has spent his entire life under his parents' roof would say... do you realize that such a thing could very well mean fascism? And please don't say something stupid like 'we've already got that', because it just makes you sound spoiled. Most people here have obviously never travelled to a country with a REAL dictatorship... I mean, soldiers breathing down your neck, raping you for fun, bullying you, and shooting you if they don't like something you did... where basically anyone who is not a soldier is the social equivalent of a farm animal. Where they censor everything, lock out the internet, disallow free speech and feed you nothing but propaganda 24 hours a day. No, I haven't lived in one, but I've visited... and even though I was just a tourist, it's not a good feeling AT ALL.

Obama has definitely got the right approach-- the problem is timing, and knowing how to spend the money. Social programs and job creation are definitely the way to go... but dropping boatloads of money into areas where it's likely to go straight into some rich asshole's pocket isn't good either.

He's got to monitor that money very carefully, and make sure that it benefits as many people as possible. The government needs to get directly involved...