christians and fundamentalism

Make your mind up. A moment ago you were telling me to let "the little people" have their say. Either you want to silence me or you don't.

If you're so fed up of this thread, then I suggest you keep out of it. Go and do something else. I know! Say a prayer for my soul

 

Haha very funny! don't mind if I do...

A moment ago I was asking you why you care so much, actually... But you didn't answer, instead you decided to grab that one comment I made because I was annoyed (or insert some other word here I'm too tired for translation now, sorry)...

Well... I guess I don't want to silence you, or anyone else for that matter, I'd like people to discuss things without getting heated up (me included) but I guess that's impossible on this topic... that is why I said I was fed up with it... people throwing insults is not my idea of a discussion (but yes, I still sink to that level myself sometimes when someone says something I don't like, I'm still young and foolish I admit). So don't get so worked up because of something I say...

I COME IN PEACE..................

~lovetulip.

 

That is true... and sometimes, you'll be suprised at who ends up giving their life to Christ. Sometimes the person you least expected is the one who ends up praising his name louder than the rest. When that happens, it's quite amazing. It's great to see more Christian oriented posts popping up all over the board.

 

No, you're quite right. I chose to ignore your question - mainly because I'm bored of explaining it so often on these forums, and partly because I think it should be fairly obvious. To summarise: I care because christianity, through its beliefs, has served to fuel prejudice and oppression for thousands of years. This been the direct cause of misery, suffering and death for millions of people. Today in Africa, AIDS is an epidemic - but the catholic church won't endorse the use of condoms. Women in America face having the right to abortions removed. Gay people the world over have no official recognition of their loving relationships, mainly because of pressure from christian organisations. And don't even get me started on the historic atrocities carried out by the church.

I'd like that too. I don't think it's impossible, but patronising people doesn't help.

Well I'm 33 and I still throw insults back when they get thrown at me, so don't feel too bad

Okie dokes. I'm not one to hold a grudge. I do have some strong views on christianity, but I never set out to insult anyone unless they insult me first. If you read the thread, I'm sure you'll see my critique of christianity has been entirely polite and reasonable

 

I can assure you that I won't be surprising anyone anytime soon. I'll bet a years wages! Any takers?

It's even better to see all the alternative spirituality and atheism threads though

 

Hmm... I'm with you on the AIDS and the catholic church thing... (Catholism scares me a bit anyway...) Of course my view on abortion and gay relationships is different to yours, BUT I don't think that governments should be run by religious fanatics, therefore I'm not against gay relationships being legal, or abortion, in some cases, if that is what the people of the country really want... Everyone has the right to decide for themselves, whether or not what they want agrees with my faith. I'm not too big on religious oppression, no matter what the religion is... In my opinion religion and politics should be kept apart... If you want me to specify, feel free to ask, I'm not good at explaining myself clearly I'm afraid.

And history... well... HUMANS have a history full of atrocities, not just the church, I'd say.

~lovetulip.

 

I'm well aware that many christians take a similar view, which is why I try not to generalise. The fundamentalist church is worse than most though when it comes to pursuing political ambitions. It's far from uncommon for christian pressure groups to attempt to use the law of a country to further their own agenda (clause 28 in this country, and the lowering of the abortion limit for starters).

I agree, but the church has a history of atrocity that's unrivalled. The whole history of the church is built on atrocity. In fact, the only part of the church's history that's free of this stigma is the Not to mention god himself wiping out millions of innocent egyptians and their children. And Sodom and Gomorrah......

 

i dont understand how christians(catholics in particular) can take the stance of "I'm against abortion, but i dont think it should be illegal." If you believe its wrong, its because you believe its murder. How can you turn a blind eye to murder? This is how horrible atrocities happen, by looking the other way and letting shit they believe to be wrong go unhindered.

 

Y'know, I got a rep comment regarding this thread saying "tolerance. learn it". I've always considered rep points to be a really cowardly and pathetic way of expressing yourself (I always sign mine! Oh yeah, and whoever you are... you ain't got enough rep yourself to actually affect me, so nyer nyer ), but this comment struck me as particularly funny. It seems that it's ok for christians to promote intolerance towards homosexuals, people who choose not to get married, people who have abortions, pagans etc etc, yet as soon as anyone raises their hand and mentions that these attitudes might not be very nice, guess what? We're intolerant! Irony strikes again.

 

I didn't read every single msg in this thread, but someone said something about sexuality being something Christianity is ashaimed of... Wrong! If a person feels that way, it is their personal problem. God happens to be the one who invented the whole thing, and he thinks it's wonderful. But he wants us to practice it in the safety of a committed relationship. And marriage IS the commitment.. He knows it is best for us.. All I know is that when I get married one day, I want to get holy in the bedroom with him!!!

Also, the whole is God a he or a she -thing is just ridiculous, in Finnish we call everyone "hän", including God. The Bible says that God is a spirit and that he created both the man and the woman in his image. So he is both and neither. But we must call him something and that's why I keep saying him, though I very much prefer "hän"...

All I can say to anyone who wants to know why I became a Christian is that I have a PEACE in my heart. That is something nothing in this world could give me but Jesus did. It is the everlasting wonderful feeling of knowing why I am this world. I have been forgiven, I know where I'm going, and each night I go to bed feeling at peace. I have horrible days, too, I'm not talking about that - I mean a clear conscience and simply a real peace. Self-deception? Maybe, but can you say the same? If yes, then good on ya! If not, I can assure you it is possible. Believe whatever you want, but I know what is true in my own soul. You can't take that away from me.

Blessings to ALL.

 

Funny that, but he's never mentioned it to me. Are you sure? Perhaps you're listening to Satan.....

Also, I don't remember electing god, or even seeing a plaque or something saying he's in charge.

 

And of course marriages never break up do they?

 

And I dread to think what would've happened if I'd married the first person that I thought was right for me!

 

Marriages break up all the time. I'm sure you didn't know that. But, like in all conflicts between people, and I mean ALL, the reason for that is our own pride. If we were perfectly humble (not humiliated or submitted or opressed, just humble) there would be no divorces, no wars, no broken friendships. We'd always prefer others to ourselves... Obviously we can't do that, that's why I need God. And he really does help, you don't know me so you can't know but everyone around me does notice the change.

And dear Doktor, look around you. Look at nature, space, your own body. There is the miracle, the answers you want. None of that just happened to come to existence. But why are you so angry / frustrated / negative about this whole thing? God is for you, not against you. He loves you to pieces!

Gotta work now...

 

Whilst I agree that humility would certainly help in all relationships, to suggest that this would make every marriage work is simplistic beyond measure. Relationships between people are far for complex than that. Added to which, given that we don't live in a perfect world, the idea of marriage as a pre-requisite for a sexual relationship is still ridiculous. If I followed this teaching, I'd have been married many, many years ago, to a person who would've been entirely unsuitable to me, and I would never have met my current partner who I believe to be the person I will spend the rest of my life with.

*shocked* No, really? That had never crossed my mind! Don't be so arrogant as to assume that because I don't believe in your god, I don't believe in any god. Again though, this is fairly typical of fundie christians - you seem to be convinced that you're the only happy, contented people in the world.

.... because christianity promotes intolerance and hatred.

... I'm frustrated by people who condemn anything they don't agree with as sin.

...... I've spent a whole thread explaining why I think christianity is a very bad thing and a big problem. Read it. That's why I'm negative. I'm hardly going to be positive about somehting that I believe to be bad, am I?

Yay! God rocks! Well if he loves me so much, I'm sure he'll be very understanding and forgiving about me not believing in him.

 

I feel sad reading your texts. No, I don't assume you don't believe in any god, I don't think we are the only happy people in this world, and I don't want to be a pain in the ass. I really enjoy reading how other people think, including you. So don't be so angry at me all the time!

Something I didn't quite understand... Why would you have married this someone many years ago? Because you wanted to have sex? See that is not the way it works. Sex is not a basic need and you can very well live without it. I want to have only one partner so I've decided to wait till I get married (and believe, I'm free to choose anyone!). See a man who marries me based on my personality is someone worth marrying, worth the physical part as well. Then I'll try to be humble with the help of God and keep our relationship in such good shape that we won't have to divorce. If we do, I'll worry about it then, but I refuse to live my life believing and expecting the worst.

And yes I honestly believe that a marriage in which both are humble and loving, and the foundation is in God, can always work. No matter what. If that bugs you, I apologise. But I've seen so many people make up, so many marriages saved, though it was truly hopeless, that I have no choise but to believe this.

I have a feeling you've never met a real Christian before. I mean a real one! I wish you could meet my grandmother, or my friend Michelle, or my school leader Caleb. If you knew them, you could never say that Christianity promotes intolerance and hatred.

Anyways, all the best to you and everyone else too.

 

Look, you wanna know why people like you make me angry? Try this for size....

That's the most incredibly patronising and insulting thing I've read on this thread. Just because people don't believe in marriage, you jump to the conclusion that they're motivated by carnal desire. It's also insulting that you feel that you need to explain sex to me. I'm twelve years older than you, and I think I understand a little about sex, thanks very much.

Just to clarify then: I would've married many years ago because at the time, I believe the person I was with was the person who was right for me to spend the rest of my life with. I was wrong. If I'd got married, I'd have been stuck in a very unhappy relationship and never het my current partner.

Then you're a naive fool. Sorry to sound arrogant, as I'm sure I do, but this position is completely at odds with reality. Relationships are very complicated, and people are simply not always compatible. Sometimes it takes years to realise this.

You're still going at it with the things that make me angry. I've met plenty of christians of all persuasions, including ones that I'm sure you'd class as 'real', and yet because I don't see the world in the same way as you, you choose to dimiss my experience out of hand and assume that I don't agree with you simply because I've not been exposed to enough christians! Brilliant!

And I can and will say christianity promotes intolerance and hatred. It has a two thousand year history of it.

 

WARNING. This message contains statements that are to be considered Aroha's personal opinions, not patronising and insulting instructions for other people on how to live their lives.


Oh this is brilliant! You have an interesting way of interpreting my messages. Why do you assume that simply because I speak out what I believe it means I want everyone to do things the same way? You do the same thing you know.

I don't think that people who don't believe in marriage are all about sex. You didn't give me a reason, and I suggested one, partly to provoke, I admit. I said that because I've been told so many times that Christians jump into marriages too quickly because they want to have sex, which is sometimes true, I'm sure. This is just a message board, and I can't write every single thing that goes through my mind in here. Also tones and facial expressions can't be used (I'm sure you know that so I'm not trying to patronise here). So please stop taking my opinions as an absolute truth, they could never be that for they are just my opinions.

And thank you, I enjoy being a naive fool! My life is absolutely great! I love having an optimistic character and I know I'm going to have a great future. I hope I'll never turn into a cynic (not meaning that you are one)(unless you want to be one).

But why is it that me, a Christian, who should be promoting intolerance and hatred here, am the one who is not pissed off at people who think differently? Eg I know some Hare Krishnas who believe they are the only ones who right, and they can be that way till the end of the world if they choose to, and it doesn't make me angry. And even you , I'd love to sit down with you and talk more about this.

 

If that's not your intention, then explain yourself more clearly. All I can see from your posts is you saying that everyone should only enjoy sex within the confines of marriage.

That's absolutely fine. Good luck with that. I hope it works out for you. But don't tell the rest of us that god can make any relationship work, eh? And that we should've waited until we were married to have sex? As much as anything else, it's a direct insult to the very loving, special and committed relationship that I enjoy with my partner.

You're promoting the idea that people who have sex outside of marriage are sinners.

Yes, the krishnas are nearly as bad as christians in that respect.

Likewise. I always enjoy debating with christians

 

Fucking bollocks! I knew I was forgetting something!