Origins of Halloween

Your agree and wound-licking is not only creepy but is plain ignorant as well.

Just think about what your saying?

Constantine somehow just 'changed' holidays.. LOL.. 'Hijacked' LOL??

oh.. yes.. lol.. and let imagine YOUR scenario... All these 'Pagans' were showing up on Oct 31st, when someone mentioned a man in Rome had suddenly deemed the night a 'Christian Holiday...
LMAO..
.. and then some of the 'Pagans' said 'Ohhhh shit!?'
..
.. and darn it all.. they tried not to believe Jesus was the Messiah .. but their minds were 'forced' to believe it.. lol.. because after all.. some Christian declared a holiday on the same day as theirs!

I hope that sounds like a completely IDIOTIC scenario - because IT IS!

BTW.. Constantine was lonnnng dead before this all happened so chill out on the old Constantine as Darth Vader conspiracy theories.

Second.. get off your Eurocentric.. actually.. your Gaelocentric pride for a minute .. Britain is NOT THE CENTRE OF THE CULTURAL WORLD and for many peoples on earth there is NO history or tradition on Oct 31'st.

Third.. SUck on this fact of life - 'Pagans' overwhelmingly were converting to Christianity.
You seem to disrespect Pagans decision to do this (by implying they were weak minded fools).
However
Not surprisingly.. they also converted their holidays.
Suck on it!
They turned Samhain in Halloween
To bad. Life tough and thats the way it is babies!

For the record - 'Religions' date themselves.
In this case, 'Pagans' didnt come about till long after Adam and Eve were worshipping the Judeo-Christian God.

By RazorofOCcams standards of truth - Jews worship the original true and pre-pagan God.
Right?

You can celebrate Samhain if you want.. feel free to believe Ghosts are walking the earth and wear scary masks to scare them away if you need to...
But Hallow'een IS Christians to celebrate.
(sorry this forces you to lose your beliefs weaklings)

 

You need to study history. You can't just make it up.

Show me some sources backing up your comments. I have plenty for mine.

http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/halloween/holiday_origins1.html

http://www.traditioninaction.org/religious/e008rp_Halloween.htm

http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/celtsmyth/a/lochalloween.htm

http://www.creatingfutures.net/halloween.html

http://christianity.about.com/library/weekly/blhalloweenc.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/h/hallowee.asp

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?tocId=9038951&query=halloween&ct=

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/paganism/festivals/samhain.shtml


And don't worry, your idiotic, flawed, and completely uninformed post didn't do anything to weaken my beliefs. I'm sorry you're so fooled by yours.

 

pagans didn't come along till after the judeo/chriostian god? the fuck you talking 'bout?? Paganism has been around a long time...

 

Sera Michele.. YOU insist that Christians invented a NEW holiday called HALLOWEEN.
YOU make a distinction between halloween and Pagan SAMHAIN.

SO make up your freaking mind what you are arguing for or against?
Halloween is NOT Samhain.
Samhain is NOT Halloween.
YOU KEEP AGREEING ... (then deciding you dont agree and insisting Halloween is really Samhain?)

....

SoulessChaos.. There is no such thing as 'The' 'Pagan' religion or practice.
Pagan is like saying 'Religious People'... its so wide an umbrella it refers to almost everyone and no one.

Non-Yahweh worshippers are not as old as Yahweh worshippers.. who pre-date themselves well before 'pagans' (whatever that means) date themselves.

So really.. Samhain and any other 'Pagan' Holidays Hijacked the original Religion (later called Judaism and later yet called Christianity).

Get it now?

Happy Mars corporation Day!

 

The arrogance of some people is overwheming. I think you keep completly missing what they are saying Brocktoon. And then just kind of twist around things to your liking.

 

The pagan religions were in place BEFORE the catholic chuch declard the dates for their religion. I have given plenty of sources describing this, even chrsitian sources. But I will spell it out to you so to make it a little easier to get through your thick skull...



http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/holidays2.htm
"The Christianization of Pagan holidays began about the fourth century A.D. when the Roman Emperor Constantine, became (or feigned becoming) a Christian. In order to consolidate his rule, he incorporated the Pagan holidays and festivals into the church ritual - attracting the Pagans, but he gave the holidays and festivals new "Christian" names and identities - thus appeasing the Christians. Over the centuries, this practice has continued until the present time where we find the two systems, Paganism and Christianity, almost indistinguishable."


And christians didn't create a new holiday, they moved their May celebration of the dead to overlap the Samhain celebration of the pagans:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samhain
"When the Romans made contact with the Celts, they identified Samhain with their own feast of the dead, the Lemuria, which, however, was observed in the days leading up to May 13. The Christians subverted the recognition of Samhain to honor the saints, as All Saint's Day on November 1st and named October 31 as All Hallow's Eve. Significantly the feast was removed from May to November. This latter became a secularholiday by the name of Halloween."

http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/celtsmyth/a/lochalloween.htm


"As a result of their efforts to wipe out "pagan" holidays, such as Samhain, the Christians succeeded in effecting major transformations in it. In 601 A.D. Pope Gregory the First issued a now famous edict to his missionaries concerning the native beliefs and customs of the peoples he hoped to convert. Rather than try to obliterate native peoples' customs and beliefs, the pope instructed his missionaries to use them: if a group of people worshipped a tree, rather than cut it down, he advised them to consecrate it to Christ and allow its continued worship. In terms of spreading Christianity, this was a brilliant concept and it became a basic approach used in Catholic missionary work. Church holy days were purposely set to coincide with native holy days. Christmas, for instance, was assigned the arbitrary date of December 25th because it corresponded with the mid-winter celebration of many peoples. Likewise, St. John's Day was set on the summer solstice."

Pagans wern't the one changing the dates of their traditions. Any study into history will tell you that. But since you like to make up your own history rather than being informed I guess it is your decision to stay ignorant. I can't force you to accept the truth.

But the FACT is: almost all your predent day christian holidays all came from the catholic church replacing pagan holiday's. Not Judaism (I dare you to find sources backing that up). Do the research, to at least stop making yourself look like a fool in denial.

Funny how you have absolutely NO information to back up your claims.

Edit: Adding more sources (It's always good to be informed!)
http://www.hyperhistory.net/apwh/bios/b2constantine.htm
"Although Constantine was one of the greatest influences in promoting the Christian faith, he is also credited with infiltrating it with pagan practices, and bringing idols into the church. While Christianity was growing in popularity, sun worship or Mithraism remained strong in the empire. Sun worshipers were converted to Christianity because of their surface similarities, practices, and analogies such as “the sun of righteousness” which were later implemented into the church.

Mithra, the sun god was celebrated in the solar paganism and their day of rest and worship was on the day of the sun. Constantine issued laws conflicting with the fourth commandment, changing the day of worship from Sabbath to Sunday to coincide with the sun worship day of rest. Constantine’s motives for promoting the pagan influences on Christianity are not certain. His mutual compensation was possibly for political purposes of gaining favor or out of ignorance of the laws of the Bible. One mystery is The Arch of Constantine, built to honor his triumph in the name of God. The monument displays no symbolic relevance to God, but does have images of Mithra."

http://biblicalholidays.com/Excerpts/What%20happened.htm
"Constantine also supported paganism with Christianity. In 314 he placed the symbol of the cross on his coins with the marks of Sol Invictus and Mars Conservator. Constantine retained the title of chief priest of the state cult until he died.

Under Constantine things got better for the believing gentiles; however, now the Christians persecuted the Jews. The Jews who accepted Jesus as the Messiah were forced to give up all ties with Judaism, Jewish practices, Jewish friends and anything Jewish.Constantine issued laws forbidding Jewish believers to keep Saturday as Sabbath, circumcise their children, celebrate Passover, etc. The punishments included imprisonment and even death. Constantine replaced the Biblical Holidays with alternative forms of celebrations adopted from other religions."​

 

From the Christian Resource Center:

http://www.nisbett.com/holidays/printer/christmas_and_sun_worship.htm

"A star cult, sun-worship, became (in the third century a.d.) the dominant official creed, paving the road for the ultimate triumph of Judaeo-Christian monotheism. So strong was the belief in the Invincible Sun (Sol Invictus) that for example Constantine I (d. 337), himself at first a devotee of the sun cult, found it, indeed perfectly compatible with his pro-Christian sympathies to authorize his own portrayal as Helios. And in 354 the ascendant Christian church in the reign of his pious but unsavory son, Constantius II, found it prudent to change the celebration of the birth of Jesus from the traditional date (January 6) to December 25, in order to combat the pagan Sun god’s popularity—his "birthday" being December 25.​

[Editors’ note: December 25 is mentioned here, but an earlier example of the influence of this official sun worship on Christianity is Constantine’s law of a.d. 321 uniting Christians and pagans in the observance of the "venerable day of the sun" (see Nos. 1642, 1644). It is to be noted that this official solar worship, the final form of paganism in the empire (see No. 1571), was not the traditional Roman-Greek religion of Jupiter, Apollo, Venus, and the other Olympian deities. It was a product of the mingling Hellenistic-Oriental elements, exemplified in Aurelian’s establishment of Eastern Sun worship at Rome as the official religion of the empire, and in his new temple enshrining Syrian statutes statues of Bel and the sun (see Nos. 154, 1344). Thus at last Bel, the god of Babylon, came into the official imperial temple of Rome, the center of the imperial religion. It was this late Roman-Oriental worship of one supreme god, symbolized by the sun and absording lesser divinities as by the sun and absorbing lesser divinities as subordinates or manifestations of the universal deity, that competed with young Christianity. This was the Roman religion that went down in defeat but infiltrated and colored the victorious church with its own elements, some of which can be seen to this day.]"​

http://www.nisbett.com/holidays/pagan_holidays.htm
"Every denomination, every ministry and every 'Christian' organisation claims to teach the truth. Yet, what is truth? Jesus came to bear witness of the truth and teaches us that TRUE worshipers will worship in spirit and truth. Most people can agree to what 'worship in the spirit' is but cannot satisfactorily explain what is meant by 'worship in truth'. Every aspect of our worship must be true with no lies, untruths or shadows mixed in. There probably isn't a religious leader in the world that does not know that the story of the birth of Jesus on the 25th of December is an untruth. It is a very well known fact, yet, we are taught from an early age 'that to celebrate Christmas is true worship of God' so that when we grow up we just accept it without any questions.

HOLMAN BIBLE DICTIONARY: No evidence remains about the exact date of the birth of Christ. The December 25 date was chosen as much for practical reasons as for theological ones. Throughout the Roman Empire, various festivals were held in conjunction with the winter solstice. In Rome, the Feast of the Unconquerable Sun celebrated the beginning of the return of the sun. When Christianity became the religion of the Empire, the church either had to suppress the festivals or transform them. The winter solstice seemed an appropriate time to celebrate Christ's birth. Thus, the festival of the sun became a festival of the Son, the Light of the world.

During the first three centuries of New Testament church history there were no celebrations regarding Christ's birth. Although there were NO celebrations regarding Christ's birth at that time, there were various pagan celebrations held in honour of the mother goddess and the birth of her son during the winter solstice. When Rome adopted Christianity as their state religion, they did not abolish pagan customs but sought to 'Christianise' the pagan customs by assigning a similar Christian happening to the pagan custom in order to absorb the pagan custom into the church. This did not happen in one generation, but over hundreds of years time. Protestants came out from the Church of Rome because of the corruption in the church."

 

Wow, I thought the origins of halloween were pretty much common knoweldge. Seems like we have soem folks in denial here. Never quite understood how anyone can just refuse to recognize facts when they are presented.

Anyways, happy halloween, samhain, whatever. And be nice to pagans. Religious tolerance is important!

 

Dear Fact Deniers.

The more you post 'Your Evidence' the more you establish beyond any reasonable doubt that 'All Saints Day' was instituted by Christians and that 'All Hallowed Eve' is the evening before All Hallowed Saints Day.

I give up.. please stop proving this is the case!

Why do you keep proving this is the case.. then for some mind boggling reason insist that Hallows Eve is Pagan?

You just stated is is NOT!?

Whats next from you logicians?
Proving beyond a doubt that Christs Mass celebrated on Dec.25th was a Christian Holiday instituted by Christians..
.. then...
Begin insisting that its a Pagan holiday!?

Wow.

Well anyway.. most Pagans chose to become Christians.
I have heard of some people trying to Hijack Halloween and claim its a Pagan holiday now..
Oh.. thats you guys lol!

 

witches are not evil. they apprieciatte nature and respect mother eaarth. all i gotta say about that.

 

Sera.. i dont even know why you try.. i resect you SOOO much. you ALWAYS make sense. but still, you're not gonna get through to certain people...

still, keep on keeping on. you say things so well.

 

btw, brocktoon...please! have you actually clicked on any of the links? have you actually read anything sera and the others have stated?

stop acting so arrogant- please. you have no ground for what you are saying...

 

Please explain the exact place where you think Im confused.

Please explain exactly what part of my post you think is a misunderstanding.

I will actually 'dare you' to explain where you see the actual problem?

[once again.. we have all completely agreed that Christian Halloween was instituted on the same Evening that other holidays (namely Samhain) was celebrated on.]

Again.. please stop name-calling and explain where you are having a problem or disagreement with what Im saying?

 

BTW...The Funniest thing Ive read in weeks...

"Man christians are getting stupider. What are you, illeterate? You are making yourself and us fellow christians look like a moron...it doesnt' help us spread our religion."

Fellow Christians looking like 'A moron'
What am I.. Illeterate?

LOL!

And this guy zinged me Three Times!

Classic!

 

lol, I don't know why I try either. But I am going to school to be a teacher, so I suppose it irks me when someone just likes to make up knoweldge and want's to ignore the facts.


My ancestory is Irish celtic, so I know quite a bit on the topic, specifically around the holidays and celebrations since many in my family still participate (and no, they don't have magic gathering cards or anything like that). That is also why it pisses me off to hear some completely uninformed bible-thumper try to make fun of pagans. I don't laugh at christians for getting down on their knees to talk to themselves at night. Or for putting 10% of their income in the tray at church to make their pastor's Mercedes payment for him.

 

King of the Hill has the perfect explanation of this in the episode where Bobby joins a pagan-keener group.
Honestly, Trekkies (Trekkers?) can be taken more seriously.
At least they know its fantasy role playing.
(I think)

 

Obviously you are completely uninformed about paganism.

We are talking about Celtics on this thread. Not a group of teens that like to play wicca.

 

Celts had a whole bunch of different religious customs, depending on where you lived and what era you are refering to.
So did the Picts (who in Scotland were 'Hijacked' by Celts, according to your logic)
One thing that almost all the Celts have in common would be Christianity.
Most all of them converted to Christianity.

In fact, I cant think of another 'ethnic' group who has done more evangelising, promotion and loyalty to Christianity than those 'Pagan' people who decided to convert to Christianity.

Can you?

 

Well considering the fact that the catholic church is pretty pagan itself (they changed all their celebrations to fit in with pagan traditions, and changed their sabbath to sunday less jewish) you could probably thank the catholic church. Or consider it pagan itself, like many do. If you read the info with the links I provided you will see that the early church even erected a monument to the sun god.


But if your post was ment to antagonize me, thinking I'm a pagan, you are wasting your time. Half my family are celtic christians but I'm not. I don't practice any paticular religion, but I do celebrate with my family like everyone else does on the holidays.

My reason for posting and correcting you, brockton, regarding the origins of halloween isn't because I have an affinity to paganism like you seem to think. It is because I cannot stand when people give out misinformation.

Saying halloween was named after large amounts of pagans converted is a fallacy. So I pointed it out. Then you wanted to say that the christian celebrations pre-dated the pagan ones, which was also a fallacy I pointed out. Thinking all pagans run around pretending to be witches and playing magic gathering cards is also a fallacy I pointed out.

I will not disagree that you have paganism to thank for what christianity is today. Not alot of people realize just how much paganism has influenced christianity.

 

I rather thing the episode where the fundamentalist christian is trying to tell Hank that Holloween is satanic is a better discriptor for this thread. Naturally Hank, in his divine wisdom, dresses like the devil and takes Bobby out anyway. Lianne, on the other hand, liek you Brock is brainwashed by the fundamentalist and tells Hank he is going to hell. Gotta love fear mongering for God!