This is a conversation that I had on another site. I thought all of you might find it interesting. There is more to it after what I've posted, but it has to do with the human rights bit, nothing to do with this thread. So enjoy... er... or not... whatever. Here it is: "My First Attack" Sorry for the length. Him: dont want to give any advice that you dont want. so delete this now if you are offended easily. on second thought, no i wont tell you anything. if you want to grow in knowledge, ask around about veganism. you dont even have to ask me, as we are diametrically opposed on i think everything. but if you call yourself a sister, i just wanted to help you out with what could be a dangerous decision. Me: And how could my decision to not contribute to the cruelty of animals be dangerous? I'm not easily offended, but you will not change my mind. I am firm on my decision. But I could use a laugh. Lay it on me. Him: If that is the true reason, that is not too bad. But the way you say it makes me think that you view them as people. When God said "take and eat" and we will "subject the earth" He meant that there are greater concerns. Like reaching more people. Those views really are radical, if not in intention, then in practice. No matter how you cut it, it demeans human life. It sounds nice though. I know it. I am an animal lover too, I have so many it makes for a wild life. I value them, but it is on a way different level, so I am not going to make that a huge part of me. I hate factory farms, only real cruelty free meat for me. But my God is not cruel, and He condones it. Me: First off, there is not such thing as cruelty free meat, unless you only eat the meat of an animal that has died of natural causes. Which I highly doubt. Second off, how does my not partaking in animal products do any harm to people? And you still have yet to explain how it is a "dangerous decision. Him: It cheapens human life. Plain and simple. And if there is no cruelty free meat, how come God said it was something to do? Me: How does it cheapen human life? Explain. Does loving one person take away your love of another? This argument makes no sense. There are a lot of things that God said to do that people find abhorant in these times. Why should this be any different. God said to kill children that misbehave. Am I doing God wrong by not following this rule? Do you happen to eat any kind of shell fish? How about pork products? Why is this not still seen as sinning? You cannot pick the ones you like and throw out everything else. That is called hypocracy. And you still have yet to tell me how it is dangerous. Him: It isnt hypocrisy to take PRINCIPLES the way they were made for us. The methods are different now, but not the reasons. And if you arent more outraged by the slaughter of babies than the slaughter of meat animals i wonder about your priorities. I mean until that is completely over, how dare anyone give any animal thought like that? Me: I do care about slaughtered babies, and children and adults. I'm outraged by what is going on with war and politics. I'm inscensed by the fact that even though the medications are cheap to make, we are unable to send AIDS medication to Africa where people are dropping like flies from a controlable desease. Why do you think it is impossible for me to do something about people being treated cruelly because I am a vegan? Where is your reasoning behind this? Who is it that decided what principles we would be living by and which ones we were going to keep? I was not informed that this meeting was happening. My invitation must have gotten lost in the mail. It is hypocritical to condemn someone for not following God's word to the "T" when you are not even willing to do that. Him: Dosent sound like it from reading you. I hate that we WONT send meds to africa. But people have to be a greater priority than any animal. Animal testing is needed to save human life. Is that wrong? I think animals are great. I dont want them hurt at all. If it helps a real person with a soul out however, I see it as good. And I didnt condemn you for not eating meat. But you said eating meat was wrong by your choice of words. I am willing to look into anything in the Word, but God hasnt changed at all. I went to Darfur to help out. That was amazing and until human suffering is eliminated in every way possible, how should we even start on lesser beings. Me: What is your reasoning on this? People are dying because I won't eat meat? That makes no sense. Or is it because I care about an animal's life, so I must not care about a human's? Still lost me there. Yes I believe animal testing is wrong. We don't need it, trust me. It's done because it is cheaper and easier. But we can make the same advancement without harming animals. Do you think stem cell research is wrong? It can save and improve lives, but all those poor little babies that never were. And on your point, how can we even start thinking about going to a movie, buying new clothes, or going out to eat, until human suffering is eliminated? How can we go about our daily lives while these attrocities are happening? My decision is not an extravagance and it hurts nobody. Why is it a problem for you? I commend you for going to Darfur. I wish more people were willing to step up to the plate.
There would a hell of a lot more money going to help Africans if we weren't spending it on feeding cattle.
I didn end up mentioning above point later, after posting this. But I have not heard from him on that.
Tisha, i'm on your side of this. I, myself am not a vegan, but for the most part a vegetarian strictly because i live in Canada and the winters are fucking cold, and if i want a roof over my head, i need to obey my parents rules. (even though they dont know i secretly spit it out when they dont watch). anyways. that's not my point. (i'm agreeing with YOU on this one) Why does it have to be on animals? i'm 100% sure that there are people out there, who are idiots enough to be tested on. But no. It's cheaper for them to use poor innocent animals who have no say in the matter. they did nothing to us. in fact. they deserve more then that. I care for animals and humans the same. Animals might not have a voice to talk to us back, but they still have every thing else. and it disgusts me to see someone who would take a poor animal's life because it's "cheaper and easier.":toetap05:
The God justification really needs to be thrown out the window. Or maybe we should sacrifice elephants so God can get a wiff of some sweet and savory BBQ. Damn does God love his barbecue. This dude is a joke. Love for ourselves is love for nature ("We are One"). By helping nature flourish we in turn give ourselves more resources for which we can flourish. If we destroy nature, then we destroy ourselves. Seeing yourself separate from all life is what causes many of the problems today. It's the exact same concept as getting out of an abusive relationship. Which is worse, the death of a baby or the death of the last microbe of penicillin? No death has inherent value, but we give it so. Some people's consciousness are humanistic, other's consider the microbes....
And it's sad now adays people are putting values on lives. How can you put a price on someone's (or something's) life?!
one of the issued raised with animal testing is how well does it actually relate to human physiology? Even simian studies fall short. That's not to say that all the testing of the past should be disregarded, but we should look, and look hard at the real value to human health versus the cost to the animals themselves.
Well, an animals life is worth a whole lot less than a humans' life. lol since when did an animal come up for a cure for cancer..? Ha
what an incredibly deep argument. You didn't come up with a cure, so what are YOU worth? Come to think of it, humans haven't done that either!
That my dear is the only credible reason not to eat meat besides religion. Takes money to feed and raise cattle for use to eat but you know us Americans, nothing comes before our meat.
really. Medical science and alternative heath has r=tripped over the way to make individuals able to heal, but overall, no, cancer is not cured. Or fully prevented. so take your red herring and flame bait elsewhere.
