my problems with christianity

1. entrance into the world is universal through birth. Why should any book (AKA the bible) that is made from words and paper mean more than any other book made from the same? Following that, how can you say translation from the original language (hebrew maybe? I dont remember) translate so perfectly into english that people follow and praise it word for word?
2. How can Christians be so stuck up that they say the only way to find spirituality and faith/salvation is through Christianity and not through any other means of connection to the holy or connection through worship?

please, do not just post 20 paragraphs of bullshit and prophesy. If I want that, I would just go to church. I was raised Lutheran, I have had enough of that bull fucking shit. That said, if you can answer my questions logically please do, if you have some other things to say please pm me or post them by stating it has nothing to do with the questions at the beginning of the post. Do not waste too much of the page on off topic posts! Thanks
Nate

 

1. I am Catholic. Even if you are fluent in anceint Hebrew and Koine Greek, we cannot know exactly through any sort of mortal hermenutic what the authors of the Bible meant. We can interpret it, especially in light of tradition and cross references, but we cannot know 100% by our own logic. Some people argue for the Holy Spirit influence in interpreation. The problem there is that how do you decide who is being influenced by the Holy Spirit. I think what it is best to do is study the text critically, not just theologically, but the higher criticism of the academy. Add that to theological hermenutics and we can get pretty close without the Holy Spirit.

2. While I think the sacrifice of the Mass is the most proper way to liturgically worship and praise God, I do not deny the experience of other people. You can validly experience God in other ways.

It is unclear what metaphysical beleif you hold in your post, and that was probably intentional (or at least it seems like it). If you would like me to pray for you, I can say some Hail Marys or something. If not, that's cool too.

 

to the first question..it is Hebrew and Greek and the bible has been translated into many, many, many other languages than just English..perfect, it has not been translated perfectly..nothing that man does is perfect. God is perfect and with diligent study of his words, written by imperfect men, God's qualitys shine through regardless of who wrote it.

 

Christians can be so stuck up cuz they believe. The more important question is why are you so stuck up about them being wrong. Why are you so made about the whole thing, it's ok not to believe.

 

religion was brought on us by a man who sat in his cave too long and when he stepped out to see daylight, he saw another long haired beared man and called him jesus.

 

this is not a typical Christian belief, but I do have to say I like this outlook.
if youd like to pray for me I wouldnt stop you, feel free.

I want to add as well im not attacking Christianity, just questioning it......

 

I just wasn't sure where you were in your search. Some poeple when they question God go nearly full-blown atheistic, while some just question the notion of God set out by their Church.

The reason I can say that you can experience God in more ways than one is that placing limits on the experience is placing limits on God. If you feel the numinous while at Mass or hearning people speak in tongues, that is one way. If you experience the numinous when you are in nature and marvel at creation (not creation in the young-earth sense, but creation in general) then thatis another way of experiencing God (so Dawkins then experiences God all the time IMO).

Other religious traditions can also do that. For example, as I mentioed above, speaking in tongues is one way to expeience God. I do not agree with it and it is not for me, but for others is is a direct communion with god. For me, I like some of the Eastern Christian methods (recitation of the Jesus Prayer). Heck, meditation of many sorts can be a way to experience God. Sex is an experience of divine love because love flows from God.

I want to clairfy something that may be misunderstood. I am not saying that Christ is not the "only way to God" or that I am a religious universalist. His sacrifice is what saved the entire world. I merely think that the human experience of the numinous as it applies to experiencing God is universal, but not necessarily salvation. I am not going to try to convert you. The searching for God in Hebrews 11:6 is the minimum for salvation and only God can know who does in fact seek him. Can Dawkins be seeking God? 100% I am sure of it.

And what may I ask brought upon this revelation? I realise you are proabably trying to be funny, but I am pretty sure there was religion before Jesus. I am pretty sure that imagination and the ability to conceive of transcendental realities are uniquely human. It is what separates us from other primates. 32000 years ago we had religion.

 

It's worth keeping in mind that Christians come in different flavors. As a progressive Christian, it bothers me that so many people buy into the assumption that fundamentalists and traditionalists are the prototypical Christians. I don't believe that "the only way to find spirituality and faith/salvation is through Christianity and not through any other means of connection to the holy or connection through worship". In Oklahoma, we have an ashram run by Catholic nuns, blending eastern and western religious traditions. I draw upon Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Judaism, Islam, and Pre-Columbian Native American traditions to gain a richer spiritual experience and faith/salvation.

 

I was raised Methodist, am technically Lutheran, but...yeah. Many of the fundamentalist claims of Christianity are questionable at best, if not completely ridiculous. I say take anything of a spiritual matter said to be absolute truth with a grain of salt.

 

How can Christians be so stuck up that they say the only way to find spirituality and faith/salvation is through Christianity


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gxKStPXyn8&feature=related

 

IMO there's no reason to believe that a tribe of nomadic Bronze Age goat herders (and/or their progeny) had any better a line to "God" than you or i. there's no reason to suppose that one set of cultural rules, myths and morality tales are any more true or valid than another or that any "God" concept an individual may create from their spiritual perceptions are any less true or valid than that adhered to by a religious group.

"and if I claim to be a wise man, it surely means that I don't know."

 

This has always seemed to be a sort of paradox to me, but the entire Bible is, in my opinion.

Man is not perfect.
God is perfect.
Man is created in God's image.

Does "God's image" refer to physical appearance? I would say no because "God" is a body-less spirit.

I don't believe in Deism though.

 

My only advice here would be to look into all the world's spiritual teachings, and try to see what they hold in common. In my own opinion, thiat is quite simple - the world has a divine origin, and we can come to know this divine, whose law is LOVE.

Because of the parochialism that still infests this sad planet.

In a word, they are narrow minded, ignorant of other systems of spiritual belief, and also C/anity has been hijacked by capitalists and they seek to use it still as a mechanism to further their own sordid ends. No matter what the consequences for people's lives.

Love.

 

First, leaving the Bible aside for a moment, some find that certain authors are able to reach them better than other authors and thus those author’s books mean more than any other book to them. So likewise if a book was authored by God shouldn’t it mean more than any other book?

As for the second half of your first question, once again I would ask the question; if God wrote a book for mankind what would it be like? Would it be easily translatable? Some have said the Bible is easily translatable because of the many illustrations and stories of every day life such as farming and shepherding that are pretty universal.

Next, if God wanted to transmit a written message to everyone wouldn’t he be able to make sure that message could be gotten to everyone despite how badly it was translated?

Stuck up? Let me ask you, how should one determine the proper way to find spirituality? Shouldn’t one ask the source spiritually, God? And what if there is only one way to spiritually? If there is only one way, is it really stuck up to say so or are you just being helpful?




Now some more questions for you:
If there is nothing special about the Bible, just another book, why has it translated in more languages than any other book? Wouldn’t that in of it self make it special?

If there is nothing special about the Bible, just another book, why is it the most published book in history? Wouldn’t that in of it self make it special?

If there is nothing special about the Bible, just another book, why has it survived thousands of years, despite persecution, book burnings and the killings of those who even just had one in their possession? Wouldn’t that in of it self make it special?

If there is nothing special about the Bible, just another book, how does it seem to be such a powerful force in the lives of people?

If there is nothing special about the Bible, just another book, how does it still seem to tell us what’s going to happen next in the world around us?

 

While I may agree with your sentiment (and disagree with your arguments...Jack Chick for example has sold over 700 million tracts, does that mean there is something special to his work?) I have a big problem with how anti-pastoral these questions are.

The OP seems to be someone tinkering on the edge of losing their faith. If it were me in his place, this would have possibly confirmed his second question. Christianity was often spread by force, it had a strong evangelistic nature unlike most other world religions. If you didn't notice, Islam is currently the fastest growing religion. Does that make it special too?

 

700 million tracts? How is that special?

Ask me again when he's done it for 4000 years and has passed the Bible as the most printed book known to man.

So we disagree, that's not new. But he said:

so I tried to stay away from a strictly religious view point trying to show that the Bible is and has done many things no other book is or has done.

My questions to him that you cite were about the Bible, not Christianity, showing that the Bible is a special book and different from all other books. Thus my questions that you cite have nothing to do with his second question, one way or another.

True Christianity has never been spread by force!

If your form of “Christianity” was, perhaps it’s time for you to look elsewhere.

As for Islam being currently the fastest growing religion, that doesn’t prove anything to me but you can decide for yourself if that makes it special to you.

 

Now that you mention it,

I am bilingual French and English and the power of John 1:1 can only be really understood when comparing the 2 languages. It totally blew me away when I came about the 2 completely different connotations and implications.

My best advice to you my friend is this

Live not questing for ideals, beliefs, and particular practices. Instead strive to put into practice the thesis of the book: Become unconditional love and forgiveness incarnate... that is the purpose for any and all humans to accomplish. Is it not?

Doctrines and Dogmas of men have you living in this state of mind that you are imperfect and a sinner and you will fail your brother. If you live with this constantly searing in the back your mind like a hot coal you are dooming yourself for failure.

Truth be told, it is improbable for a person to please EVERYBODY. We are all different. (FOR NOW) (Hey I'm a dreamer... Utopia ... it can happen)

Life is not rocket science. Do the best you can to love all and forgive all unconditionally. When you do fail somebody offer extra to make up for it. That's about all you can do in your current capacity as a human.

I do say current because who knows what the future holds

 

I gave up on Christianity when I was 5. Never regretted it.

 

If it wasn't so full of doctrines, dogmas and laws without real simple easy reasoning I bet it woudn't be so.

I hope that you are content and in peace.

 

You talk about "it" as though Christianity were one unified thing. I admit that the predominant forms of Christianity historically and even today are "full of doctrines, dogmas and laws" introduced between two and four centuries after the death of Jesus. So do we have to buy into those if we call ourselves Christian? I don't, and I doubt that Jesus would either if he were around today. Nothing could be simpler than a message of judgment free love for everybody and concern for society's least advantaged, the outcasts and rejects. To me, that's all real Christianity is about.