4-HO-5-MeO-DMT, shrooms producing non-Psilocin pshchoactives

While jokingly mentioning feeding DMT to growing shrooms, my friend mentioned a seriously interesting article about 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT and how you can make mushrooms produce other tryptamines (instead of Psilocin) by replacing the growing substrate. It hasn't worked with 5-MeO-DMT, but it has worked with other chemicals (DET, etc).

4-HO-5-MeO-DMT is a psychedelic tryptamine but very little is known about it. The only report of it in the chemical literature was a paper published by Marc Julia's group at the Pasteur Institute in 1965. They only reported the synthesis and physical properties of the compound and it has never been documented or explored in any other way.

Their paper cites a 10 step synthesis of 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT from ortho-vanillin. However, Alexander Shulgin has explained that it could be possible to cultivate 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT in psilocybin mushrooms by adding 5-MeO-DMT to the growing substrate of the fungus. Though this method has never been explored with 5-MeO-DMT, it has been used successfully for changing DET into 4-HO-DET and 4-PO-DET, both of which had never before been found in nature.

In the case of DET the mushrooms yielded only 4-HO-DET or 4-PO-DET respectively, instead of psilocin (4-HO-DMT) and psilocybin (4-PO-DMT), suggesting that the presence of the extraneous N-dialkylated tryptamines competed for the enzymes in the fungus mycelium that would normally produce psilocin. This method thus not only produced new chemical compounds that had never previously been made synthetically, but also rendered the fungus itself completely legal in many countries because of its absence of psilocin or psilocybin.

Theoretically, this method would 4-hydroxylate and 4-phosphoryloxylate any tryptamine added to the substrate, opening the possibility of synthesizing as yet undiscovered tryptamines.

DISCUSS!!

p.s. I don't know if this should be in the chemistry forum, the mushroom forum or the synthetic forum! I'll see how it goes here and if it needs to be moved, it could be.

 

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/blg/index.html

 

Excellent find los Maybe on my next grow Ill add some 5meo in and see exactly what happens

 

Also,

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-305363.html

 

"However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug."


WOW. I want to naturally grow synthetic tryptamines in my mushrooms. What would be the most interesting to grow? People have done DET, DPT, DiPT and I even think AMT.

 

[/B][/I] People have done DET, DPT, DiPT and I even think AMT.[/QUOTE]

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22813

 

My best guess at actually making this work would be to grow some kind of woodlover with mimosa hostilis mixed into the spawn.

 

That would be a possible way to increase the potency of the 4ho-dmt

 

You're right. Sorry. I was celebrating the holiday yesterday - wasn't quite thinking straight.

Can we find a copy of this patent? I bet you that if I can read it, I could figure out a reasonable tek for at-home use. I'm gonna look, and I suggest you guys do, too. Post it if you find it.

 

The patent is still in process, but Jochen Gartz is the guy patenting this method I believe. I couldn't find it, but I'd love to see it too.

 

It's been confirmed, I'm gonna try this. Any recommendations as to which synthetic tryptamine I make the shrooms naturally create?

 

How are you planning on doing it? I can't imagine that just dumping some powder into your substrate would work well.

 

I thought that too, but apparently they're intelligent enough to metabolize it themselves. You can't add to much or the process just doesn't work though.

 

I bet mixing it into some MEA or PDA would work well. I just don't know how much might tranfer into the substrate? Maybe it'd start making 4-HO-* on its own? I really wanna try this now.

 

Some say you just apply it the growing mixture the shroomies are growing on.

 

Does this mean that ANY tryptamine can be incorporated into the production of mushrooms? Like, would the 2c family work?

 

All 2C's are phenethylamines, not tryptamines.

 

oh my bad, thanks for the correction.

 

But theoretically, this works with all tryptamines. I'm sure some work WAY better than others (ie ones with similar structural similarity to Psilocin and Psilocybin).

 

Interesting thread i did a bit of reading up on this after i found out about it here! I look forwards to hearing about your results!