what are you prepared to do???/

i have read alot of complaints our how our contry is going to hell in a handbasket, how fucked up shyt is , and still i only see very few committed to a change in their own lifestyle! lets be real for all of our wants we will never be able to massive influence on how society veiws things! we live in a fucked up country with fucked up leaders....

so what are you prepared to do?

i have some money and i am a master carpenter i am willing to go in with a few folks and start a primitive style commune... the earth will now as it always has provide a living for whomever has the courage enough to seek it! i can give up everything but you... the desire for likeminded people to be around is great... even in the days where primitive existences were common... it was recognized that in order for a people to thrive there must but communal relationship!(thisfrom neanderthal and cro-magna.) at some point we have to rise to the challenge of no longer talking about change but being change.

i dont have a vision of communal houses with 50 people crammed into one or two buildings and forced to obey a protocol of religion... hell i dont care if the choice is just to walk off the grid never to be heard from again or purchase a cheap parcel of remote land, however i am saying if your desire is to be self sufficient then lets talk further... no rules have been made and instead of being a member now you have the chance to be a founder.

about me ... well lets see imma carpenter,pothead,hunter,born and raised in the woods. i lived off the land for a bit this spring and summer but where i was didnt believe in one having an opinon opposite of theres and well i aint trying to be a leader of a community but instead apart of one.

hope to one day find a down to earth like minded woman and have a family i may not be able to shelter them from the lures of this materialistic world but i can limit there exposure to the sytematic brain washing....

hell i dont even know if im saying the right things but i do know the right people will know hwere im coming from! give me ideas and input and fell free to contact me at gezium@aol.com if you have a serious interest!

oh yeah this will not require a tuition or intiation fee


peace should be free and fredom should be peaceful!

im would be especilly interested in talking to metalsmith and teachers! let me know!

 

Will,

Good to see that you are not giving up just because the first attempt you were involved in did not pan out. For those serious enuf - they will find a way though that way may be full of testing to make sure we really want to go to the full.
Blessings on your Way

 

Are you interested on farm living? That may be more than you expect if you dont already have the land. I am very intertested. I live out in the woods when I don't have to worry about working in babylon. I can survive on hunting and growing food. I can weld a little bit but I have no personal equipment. Other things have to fall into place for this to work. I am going to email you as boxofrain and ask more about this. get in touch with me please.

 

good to hear from you again will. figured i would run across you sooner or later, i kinda figured what happened.

i agree with oldwolf. also you need to realize we are not all as fluid as you are.
some of us want the change but do not have the luxury of such trial and error...in such broad strokes. so we observe and listen and slowly make solid steps....sometimes we get stagnent or stuck and need you to give us a nudge.

one thing i have realized is i may be looking forever if i expect to find a group of people with exactly the same goals or ideas of permaculture...not that i consiously want that, but i think if the thought was not in my mind, we would have already met. the timeing needs to be right and any rush is expectations of the ego poising to trip you up. (imo)
maybe it doesn't need to be all or nothing.
maybe we can support each other in the interim, helping each other clearify their goals.
maybe you still have my addy?

 

hey ron im glad you stopped by... and old wolf my shaman the spirit path is a rough one and if not for the strengh and steadfstness of the wise ones like yourself and 7 rivers i would for sure have given up hope and commited spiritual suicide... horrible isnt it that the trade is the acceptance of the a stucture created to imprison or swim against the current for a small promise of self freedom....

 

I know exactly what yout saying, Ive been working with a life that would agree with such thoughts for about two years now, and I have come up with an extremely doable plan.
I wish I were starting something sooner cause u sound like just the type of fellow Im looking for,The set up phase will not start for two more years until then me and my buddy brandon are going to be taking some courses, my vision was something on the lines of two people to a house solar and wind electricity, basement with a mylar couted sunwell comming down to it for natural light for experimental horticulture projects of your liking. Im planning on throwing in a cloning/breading chamber personally with some flourecents myself. Life would be completely withdrawn from the outside world more or less. We wood get our own food(through permaculture) and water(through purifacation). We would have our time to do as we please, I want to find land next to a lake prefferably or river so we could craft some rafts or canoe's. I'd be doin alot of building myself. I would hope to build a taoist shrine or temple depending on if anyone else in the practice would be along with.
But as far as what Im willing to give for this, everything. It's gonna be an assload of courses for me and about 6000$ per person start up fee though I estimate.
I also relate to the fact you want to free your children of the opression and lures of an overly materialistic society, for nor would I ever want to raise children and allow them to be raped by greed and commercialism of this country.

 

i do agree with this. i will have to talk it over with hubby and see what we are going to do. right now our plans are written in pencil. still trying to figure out plan B

 

i think all to often when someone comes here and they are "ready" human nature perpetuates the lack of patience and in return one loses sight of the ultimate goal...

money being the vice who jaws clamps us all... is the motivator for all things great or small! so i have decided to open my house to anyone comitted to this idea. im in norfolk,va and surrounded by employment... so funny cuz us carpenters would laugh during the last 4 years thinking any carpenter out of work in va just didnt want to work.

many want me to give them answers to how things should be or would or are going to be and to be honest i dont know... i believe the dynamics of this community will be the reflection of the people who join

as far as money for propeties im going through some patient required steps to get alot of land for little money in return the kings requirements should be small and i believe through several small farm based activities enough money can be made to satisfy the mortgage and taxes...

i wish i could do everything and not pay a dime but reality is compromise.... as long as we give cesar what is his then nor fear shall befall us of tyranny.

i guess for those of ou who want to know what type of community i envision... it would be one without guidlines and requirements.... example

say you want to lay around all day and do nothing...cool
but dont complain during frigid winters that your tent is cold! cuz i will remind you you didnt want to build a shelter you wanted to lay around and do nothing even to your own benefit... then i would let you in my cabin and make room for you till spring!(cuz im a softie) no really i cant put a parameter or guideline on anything i dont want a community of conformist but instead of people with the ability to be themselves! i probably didnt say anything more then i said before vut hey atleast you a just as confused as i am.... oh yeah by the way i need help putting together a web page i have began but its hard for me to be the only one alot of information is already by you mt brothern but unavailable as we have not met yet

for those of you who are not sure.... try some extended time in the woods for a week or two ...see if you like it.... while you are there the clarity for necessaties will become apparent....

oh yeah bye the way i really could use a womans input on this cuz i expect to begin building in spring and would like to have a gender friendly layout!

 

oh yeah i think i should say this... i am an advid hunter i do not care what ther peole eat but at the same time im not going to dedeicate a community standard based on total vegetable consumption in accordance with my beliefs even a vegatable is living and killing is killing but not to be confused with murder most things are designed to give life even in there death!

 

Willpower- I am very interested in what you are trying to start. I have a few questions. Where are you planning to locate? How soon do you plan on getting land?

 

well i have been looking at a couple different states im leaning heavily towards oregon considering there wild game has only benn demisned by 16% since 1890 and they have an extremely long and consistent grow season....

also arizona and texas with a slim possibility of utah.....utah has a lot of gost towns(pop.65 for example) and they are very free spirited alot of polygamist ...

as to when the purchase will happen im kinda waiting to see who will commit to community and in return make a collective decision based on the groups needs and wants...

lucky for you tzu we are on the ground floor and have the luxury of hearing opinions of other potetial members....

i dont want this to be another "failed attempt" so i believe that a full projection is important

so once we have considered the pros and cons of the different regions then we can make a definite decision

your interest AND your opinion on the critical matters would be greatly appreciated

let me give you a brief overview on what i have to offer
imma caarpenter furniture,tools,cabins etc. i have also a working knowledge of farms and horse ranches i have been raised in a country woods enviornmeant so other than the fundamentals im at the mercy of the other members!
as a means of resource i intend build furniture and cabinets i have two merchandisers im in negotiations with... imma need some help* hint*

also i want the members to have the freedom to build and market their own crafts if they choose to....

however beyond the realm of helping with the crops and winter preparations i wont really have an expectations of anyone member... i truly do not wnt this to be a work camp guised as a commune cuz its not one lodges are built if your only desire is to lay around and smoke weed and piant by numbers i wont care at all unless you dont pass the "j"!

i hope i have answered your questions and if i can be of further assistance let me know

oh food for thought if you decide to join this u would be apart of the decision making process and can answer some questions!

 

I totally agree with the willpower thing, some people put very little value behind there words whether it be from personality or reliability. I assure you my intrest in a permaculture based ecovillage project far predates any involvement of mine in this site. As for the meat issue I'm no vegetarian myself, though I could adopt it as a trait, yet theres no need not to use small livestock they help for fertiliztion purposes anyway, and I certainly wouldn't mind going on some bow hunts. I have to say though I don't know if I'd want any guns around. You mgiht be on some diffrent ground on this than me and that's alright, yet this is where our visions would leave paths I'm afraid.
To give an example though I really do mean what I say I already have scheduled the courses Im taking next summer and $2,500 saved up to take them, and seeing as my parents are being cool and paying for my college by the time Im out I should have over $7,500 saved up, though Ill problably start spending it 2 years through college because by then I'll have gotten all the permaculture,natural building, and alternative energy systems training I need.
You're probably getting set up right away though, and if it is probably gonna be well established I will probably want to found rather then join so I would just say, best of luck

 

I received an IM from you and you asked if i had gotten an email.

I didn't send it again. Boxofrain2004@yahoo.com

 

I love the idea of doing something like this, I just don't know if I could deal with the reality of it. It's hard to decide how much of ones life one can make concessions with. People might consider camping with each other for a while, to see how you work together and relate.

I like the idea of going in with people and buying land together, then each person has their own little section that they can do what they want with, (more for freedom and security than the idea of "owning" something) with a central building that everyone shares and a simple central organization. Sections could be gifted to or sold cheaply to those with less money, in exchange for help or just good Karma.

I dream, but I don't know if I could really do it, I like to spend a great deal of time by myself doing art. I want to build a cob house http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Canopy/7148/cobpics.html one for me and one for my mom,grow and gather my own food in the summer and live like a freegan in the winter.

I helped build a cob house this summer in Oregon, it was so much fun! My mom might be buying some land at some point, so I should be able to realize at least part of my dream. She might take some working on before she lets people stay with us though.

 

ya cob or some other earthplaster would definitely be the way to go. Ive done some math and I figure If you built the house with more natural materials, plus you'd need solar/wind power systems and batteries but all togethter with the cost of land a thing like that shouldn't run more than $4,500 a person. The main problem though is Id want to have a basement for "horticulture" purposes and Is that doable with this type of structure?
Yeah I just did a bunch of looking up on what you can do with cob structures and that is definitely the way Im going. The artistic imput you can put into your buildings is amazing. When I got nothing better to do living away from it all there's no doubt Im gonna feel inspired to mold myself up some masterpeices, including a taoist temple eventually.

 

personally i am fond of log cabins and woodstoves...

i have gone total primitive...earth shelters and wild game... through it all i realized i could be self sufficient without depriving myself of a few simple luxuries like tv and the internet... its not that im trying to escape the "real" world but instead limiting how much of i i choose to deal with...

as far as my hunting practices go ... me and mt bow can kill a bail of hay but we dont agree as much in the field...i am not a big gunn enthusiast i dont run around ranting and raving about "how big my gun is" in acceptance of trying to remain as primitive as possible i hunt with a muzzleloader9 dont want toexpose to many non biodgradable metals and chemicals black powder being a combination of charcoal,nitrogen, and sulphur is less impactive on the enviornment... i hunt for food not a challenge or fun although its fun hunting,so a good cow at 150 yards is good enough for me and my family for months!

i have rread a few articles in mother earth news about cob and sod houses... however i think for me to be comfortable( which is important but i'll get back to that!) i would prefer a log home....

comfortability is important with anything you do and the more you want to be somewhere the longer you will stay!

 

erowild.....

i did a lil research and found out that as long as your basement square footage is less than 2/3 the total sq. ft of you house then a basement in a cob structure is totally doable however a rail road tie type member would be needed to span the with and sure the intergrity of the floor above....

cobcottage that was a great link you inspired a different line of thought about housing!

 

Will=-m (blush) your welcome. I personally haven't decided what I want to use as my main building materiel, I just hope to incorperate cob to some extent. It has great thermal properties but poor R-value, so I will have to mix it with something like straw bales or cordwood.

erowid-Basements that are not insulated can be an expensive drain on resources, so you might consider a root cellar or something like if you do not plan to insulate it.
I have heard of cob houses that cost anywhere from 500 to 20,000 to build. I sometimes wish I lived in a warmer climate and could build and all-cob house instead of a part-cob house as I would have more scultural freedom.

I like your temple idea. I have this crazy dream of building a little "Cob-land" full of little houses shaped like heads and strange beasts.

 

hello all,

good things are happening... thanks to th hipforums family i have been put in touch with some serious people and soon we will be undertaking the first steps....the update is land aquisition is not far and expecting building to commence at the start of spring!
members are still needed.... i think one thing to point out is that money is not a determining factor.... i believe a persons desire to be apart of a community is more impoertant than their ability to contribute financially....

anyways from me and mine to you and yours have a safe holiday and avoid the draft!

 

Well now - good
just don't go away and be a stranger - every step everyone takes in this endeavor (community) can be a learning process for each - should we choose to let it be.
See the silver lining - AND don't repeat mistakes - no control - aye Will ?

Love you
- And god don't take everything so serious
Laugh and the gods (and goddesses) will laugh with you
- gosh we truly are funny