This thread is about PARTYS. Libertarian IS a party. As are Repugs, Democraps, Greens, And even a Mountain Party in WV. We can discuss all of them right here. But the differing "parties" are more than sides, they are ways of looking at things. Intelligent people realize that no belief system sticks strictly to "party" lines. I've been around for 54 years. I am from an EXTREMELY political family. I listened to conversations between my mom and dad nightly in front of the news. Every single day of my life until I was 19. Things like "right" and "left" were easy to understand. As was the difference between Republicans and Democrats. Libertarians were a bit more "liberal" in their philosophies than Democrats was all. Right was war mongers, pro-big brother, and all about money at the expense of the little guy. Left was anti-war, anti-big government, and more about the people than the money. Liberals wanted to legalize pot and hug trees. Yea, this is REALLY simplified, but you get my drift. But now, too much of this type of categorizing has become far too complex for anyone to understand. That is because it simply can not be done any more. People have too much access to information for this to continue. Back in the day, everyone got all their news from one of 3 or 4 TV channels. And they all said the same things. Now there are so many choices and things to think about and take into consideration - stuff that the majority of folks used to know nothing about, assuming that was for the politicians to worry about... I mean come on! I was raised in a democrat household, always registered democrat, and then Ron Paul came along - a Libertarian turned Republican!!!!!!!! WTF? Hey, so I gambled and registered Republican, just in case I got the opportunity to vote for him. Do I agree with every single thing he stands for? No, but the choices were not looking so good otherwise. Does that make me a Republican? No. Just makes me a gambler... We can fit into BASIC categories, depending on our strongest personal positions, but not absolutely. An example: I am a hippy. This is obvious by looking at the clothes I wear, the books on my shelf, the way my house looks, and my belief system. But wait, Some of my beliefs may not all fit into what someone might consider as "hippy" beliefs. And all the clothes in my closet are not tie dyes! And I have some books that might be considered "un-hip". Perhaps I even have a friend who is a straight right-wing republican! Does that make me any less a hippy?
Balbus, As long as you CAN NOT look at people as anything other than a subject which must fit into a category, I fear you will never have much luck in any "debates" in THIS political forum. Not only do I find your idea of what is "right wing" to be thoroughly confusing, I find it absolutely insulting to be considered such. You may as well tell me I am nothing but a whore. So, if you continue to insist that I am a "right winger" I will consider you to be slinging unwarranted personal insults. And I AIN'T stuttering.
LOL! After droning on for a while you declare victory, and tell me to start another thread if I have anything else to say. Classic Balbus!
To quote America:The Book, "Ralph Nader was in fact 3rd in being responsible for costing Al Gore the presidency, behind George W Bush and Al Gore himself"
Me too. But I already knew that. But just for the record I am not or ever have been a Christian Right leaning libertarian.
libertarians are economically conservative and socially liberal...not "more liberal than democrats." i'm referring to the political stance here, not the party, so i could be wrong. and the left is stereotypically big government, not the right. that's cool though how you try not to label yourself. i'm fairly certain that these political definitions are pretty cut and dry, although party stances may change. libertarian stances on social issues are left wing. lol. you're thinking too hard. i say we just go with what the dictionary defines as libertarian, left, right, and all that. which i'm pretty sure is what i stated on like page 2 or something. i dunno. someone here said it was something else. hell if i know. lol. gospel of thomas?
That's what the pollsters get wrong all the time. They forget we are all individuals first. And in most cases our families come first any party we may espouse comes way down the list. We aren't a commodity that can be calculated for marketing terms. We are people.
And since Ralph was a candidate why in anyway should he be held responsible for Gore's mismanagement of his own campaign. That's like blaming Palin for McCain's loss, even though he tapped her for VP.
Earthmother This is the problem I’ve been trying to highlight – some people’s perception of themselves and they views are at odds with what they say. Someone claims to understand politic then could out with something that makes seems to point to a large amount of confusing about the subject. No I don’t get the drift because it doesn’t make sense in an American context. What ‘left’ are you talking about? And there are (and have been for about 300 years) thousands of books with many, many, many differing viewpoints, thousands of choices, so what’s this rubbish? If you only ever got your information from TV and never read a newspaper, magazine or book – no wonder someone would find anything above simplistic hard to understand. * I’m going from what you say it wouldn’t matter if you were a registered Republican, Democrat or whatever, what you have said on these forums seems to be on the whole right wing. So I see you as a right winger. If you disagree I’ll ask you again please explain why you are not, because so far you haven’t been able to – instead you just tell me I’m wrong, which isn’t an explanation. * As I’ve said I’m not going from you ‘looks’ I’ve built my viewpoint of your political viewpoint from what you have said – which is mainly right wing. If you didn’t sprout so many things of a right wing bent my view of you would be different. * But what you say does seem to be right wing and I’ve asked you to explain why it isn’t and you can’t. It is clear you don’t like it, but I can’t help that, it’s what you say if you stopped saying such things and started saying something different then I’d change my opinion. But you seem to want to continue to sprout right wing views but not be called right wing. But why should I lie because you want to lie to yourself. * If you don’t like being considered a right winger then stop coming out with so many right wing views. It’s not an insult it is just who you seem to be, I can’t stop you making the statements, all I’m doing is explaining why they seem to be right wing in nature.
Because you're in denial and getting over denial is an important step in the recovery process to being a healthy individual
Earthmother Quote: Libertarians were a bit more "liberal" in their philosophies than Democrats was all. Please proof read. I have no idea what you are talking about. Please address the actual quote. Quote: Right was war mongers, pro-big brother, and all about money at the expense of the little guy. Left was anti-war, anti-big government, and more about the people than the money. Liberals wanted to legalize pot and hug trees. Yea, this is REALLY simplified, but you get my drift. Were you around in the US back in the 60's? I thought not. What "American context"? Todays? I'm not speaking about how things are today in this quote. Quote: But now, too much of this type of categorizing has become far too complex for anyone to understand. That is because it simply can not be done any more. People have too much access to information for this to continue. Back in the day, everyone got all their news from one of 3 or 4 TV channels. And they all said the same things. Now there are so many choices and things to think about and take into consideration - stuff that the majority of folks used to know nothing about, assuming that was for the politicians to worry about... (*Why do you label everything you decide not to agree with as rubbish? If we MUST be that way, I think EVERYTHING you spout is rubbish too.) Well, unfortunately, back in those days there were not so many people quite as interested in the behind the scenes politics. Like I already said. Most people DID only watch those 4 channels on TV and read their local newspapers, which just echoed what the TV was saying. You DO realize this is called the INFORMATION AGE due to the expanding use of computers? * Quote: I mean come on! I was raised in a democrat household, always registered democrat, and then Ron Paul came along - a Libertarian turned Republican!!!!!!!! WTF? Hey, so I gambled and registered Republican, just in case I got the opportunity to vote for him. Do I agree with every single thing he stands for? No, but the choices were not looking so good otherwise. Does that make me a Republican? No. Just makes me a gambler... I VEHEMENTLY disagree. But YOU refuse to address any particular statements I have made which would lead any SANE person to think I am a "right winger". All you do is tell me I sound like a right winger without any explaination. WHAT makes you so insulting? I have asked you time after time to address ONE issue you have with my philosophies at a time, but you cannot come up with one. And when I DO try to explain myself you doggedly refuse to understand, only saying I "seem" to be saying something totally different than I AM. So, what is the point in even trying to answer to these insults? * Quote: We can fit into BASIC categories, depending on our strongest personal positions, but not absolutely. An example: I am a hippy. This is obvious by looking at the clothes I wear, the books on my shelf, the way my house looks, and my belief system. But wait, Some of my beliefs may not all fit into what someone might consider as "hippy" beliefs. And all the clothes in my closet are not tie dyes! And I have some books that might be considered "un-hip". Perhaps I even have a friend who is a straight right-wing republican! Does that make me any less a hippy? Give me ONE example. Just one. Can you do it? * Quote: Balbus, As long as you CAN NOT look at people as anything other than a subject which must fit into a category, I fear you will never have much luck in any "debates" in THIS political forum. You are a very sick dude. IF I were a RIGHT WINGER, according to my understanding of the term, I would probably also be the kind of person who thinks YOU are just great. But no matter how many times you call me a right winger, it does not change the fact that I am NOT, and therefore, you will purposefully and DISRESPECTFULLY continue to PRETEND you do not understand anything I say, into infinity. If you imagined that I were Chinese, but all I ever spoke was English, you would be so stubborn as to misunderstand everything I said in English because you thought I should be speaking Chinese??? Come on dude. Nobody is this thick. * Quote: Not only do I find your idea of what is "right wing" to be thoroughly confusing, I find it absolutely insulting to be considered such. You may as well tell me I am nothing but a whore. So, if you continue to insist that I am a "right winger" I will consider you to be slinging unwarranted personal insults. And I AIN'T stuttering. FUCK YOU dude. Do not tell me what is and is not insulting to me. You will not stop calling me something I am not. You will not tell me WHY you are calling me something I am not. I AM insulted. EXTREMELY SO!!!!!!!! Again FUCK YOU. This is the "right wing whore" signing off. You are ruining ANOTHER thread. That makes, what, like EVERY thread you participate in??? I think this thread needs CLOSED. Ari? ____________
With you it is, you don't want to admit it, but really you are basically the pressed rat of the other side of the spectrum
With Balbus continuing to lecture us on what words mean, I am reminded of "Through The Looking Glass and What Alice Found There".
earthmother, if you don't like what's being talked about here, just don't talk here. personally, i think that you're wrong take take being called "right wing" as an insult. while i don't see where balbus gets the idea that you are right wing (probably from some other thread or something)...it's just a political view. it's not like he's calling you fascist. (not all republicans are "the devil" by the way) hell, if you want to prove him wrong, take this test and post your results. http://www.politicalcompass.org side note: i think this entire conversation went completely off topic after the first page here...but i honestly don't care.
Took it already. Apparently I'm on Ghandi's side... Unfortunately, as soon as SOME people on here start trying to categorize everyone into strict categories, all intelligent conversation goes out the window. Parties is what the thread's about, and parties is what's being talked about for the most part. But trying to pigeonhole people just to be RUDE is not part of talking about parties now is it? Anyhow, at this point it is not even anyone's worry WHY a person might feel insulted by being relentlessly labeled something they are not in any way shape or form. Only thing that matters at this juncture is that if someone is feeling insulted and expresses that, and the other party CONTINUES to be insulting, then it IS an insult. No matter what it is. Problem is, I was raised to see the term "right-wing" AS an insult. This would not bother me in the slightest, except that a certain someone continues to insist that I AM something I am not, something which I don't have a very high opinion of, at the expense of all other intelligent conversation. Sort of like having a door slammed in your face because you have long hair, after being called a "drunken bum", when you might actually be a preacher or something who just happens to have long hair.... It's rather shallow thinking, which does not allow for any communication beyond defense/offense.
actually, the thread was about how once one labels himself a certain party, his views are skewed away from what he might actually believe, towards what that party or political stance holds. but i don't mind. lol. any intelligent discussion is better than what i get in the real world anyway. and i dunno. i know some of my views are conservative. i really doubt there's too many people out there with 100% left or right wing stances. (i was about where ghandi is too). maybe he was talking about a view of yours he saw as right wing? i mean, unless you scored -10, -10, you're not 100% left. who'd wanna be that radical anyway?
