The analysis of mind, matter, and thought

Just wanted to know what people’s thoughts and answers are on this subject. Reading about it is easy enough, but understanding and applying it is a little difficult without ‘bouncing’ it off others.

“Few things are more firmly established in popular philosophy than the distinction between mind and matter. Those who are not professional metaphysicians are willing to confess that they do not know what mind actually is, or how matter is constituted; but they remain convinced that there is an impassable gulf between the two, and that both belong to what actually exists in the world.”

- The Analysis of Mind, by Bertrand Russell


Do you think mind and matter come from the same source or not? How is it possible that they come from the same source (which is my understanding) yet there's a huge gap between the two? Would they not essentially be the same thing, or at least consist of the same thing?

The essence of everything mental is considered ‘consciousness’ either as a relation to objects or as a quality of physical phenomena. Matter is part of consciousness therefore, based on this theory matter would be mental, or created by the mind. This would mean matter is created by thought. Does mind create thought or does thought create mind? Do you think matter could be created by one beings thought’s, or does everyone/everything have to be consciously and/or unconsciously aware of an object or thing in order for it to exist/ become matter? I’ve recently read about Carus and how he formulated the concept of the ‘unconscious’ and Kant’s writing on the “immeasurable field of obscure ideas” but had a hard time finding answers for these questions. Any thoughts or answers on anything above would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Peace

 

I believe that matter exists independently of thought and that mind is simply matter, or a product of matter.

 

yea but thought/mind creates matter

 

^ all mind
a mirror reflecting a mirror
- shatter them

 

lmao, I know I know

 

so then what are you searching for

 

oh, never mind, we're not talking about the same thing. I thought you were saying that because I posted it twice

 

That is a silly statement imo. Single celled organisms came first, then eventually evolved into minds. The single celled organisms were made of matter, they organized into minds. We're just now at the point where self-awareness is possible thanks to complex organization. Talking about it requires consciousness, matter existing does not in any way whatsoever require consciousness. I'm really drunk but I'm pretty damn sure all that made sense.

 

1)due to thought


2)matter only exist if things are conscious of it..."if a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it..."

3) no it didn't, thank you for replying though

 

You're looking at it from a totally human perspective ...

Are you saying before consciousness evolved, single celled organisms didn't exist?

Consciousness in the form of self awareness and sentience has only existed for 100,000 - 200,000 years (homo sapiens). Our thoughts are the product of chemical and electrical signals in casing of gray matter. We developed frontal lobes which allowed us to predict events far into the future, and see ourselves at multiple points in time.

All I can gather from what you say is that thought is all that matters, without thought nothing matters, but how does it cease to exist? It could cease to exist in our minds but it could organize once again into thought. Matter came first, no?

Try to reword it so I can see your perspective more thoroughly I guess.

 

According to whom?

I don't believe that there is a duality of mind and matter. I believe that consciousness is simply a mechanical process that occurs within the brain (with data input from the senses of course). On the most basic, mathematical level it is simply comprised of an enormous number of complex algorithms (represented by electronic signals passed between neurons, much like the electronic parts of a computer). In essence, the brain has such a powerful capacity for lateral reasoning that it is aware of itself and of ideas like choice and purpose.

All consciousness in its current biological state is limited and all large brained animals possess varying levels of it. Humans have the added benefit of culture over other animals - our ability to communicate through speech and text, to store large amounts of data and to manipulate our environment create something of an external consciousness (a pool of ideas - or rather, everything we know) that individual consciousnesses can tap into and increase their understanding of the universe and themselves.

All of this happened, or is happening, as a result of a material processes, one in particular being the gradual increase in complexity of living organisms due to evolution.

To sum up: 1) We have large brains with the capacity to solve insanely complex problems
2) We possess culture (or a knowledge base that goes far beyond what we might need simply for survival)
3) We evolved to this state. Consciousness or mind is therefore somewhat of an accident.

I know this doesn't answer the mind/matter question, and that my picture of consciousness may not be very clear (I know very little about the science behind it all). What I am trying to give you is a more scientific idea of how matter may be able to give rise to mind and how they can actually be the same thing.

I believe that if every human on earth died today, there would still be matter tomorrow (trees, planets, cats). These wishy washy ideas (such as 'Mind creates matter') are the product of some philosophers' inability to come to terms with a purely material world.

If we are to believe that humans are simply 'computers', can we then assume that there is no such thing as free will? That is a difficult question to answer.

I tried.

 

Without mind there is no thought, without thought there is no matter.

 

How do you justify without thought there is no matter? You can't just say it lol.

Matter existed first, refute it with evidence.

 

If you and I both see a chair and can independently reason that it is a chair, is it not reasonable to assume that that chair exists independently of our minds?

 

thanks for your answer. So you believe thought and matter come from two different sources

 

I will get back to you on this. I cannot at this time answer this question

 

I'm not answering that question. You didn't read my post and I have the feeling that you are stoned, or a troll.

Sorry if I'm wrong.

 

Of course there is no free will, the brain is a physical system, the mind results from the brain. If you could plot the velocity and direction of every molecule, and every force, and EVERY SINGLE OTHER VARIABLE into the most elaborate supercomputer we could possibly imagine, the future would be completely predictable. As it is now we can only predict the immediate future, in the distant past even that was beyond our grasp. The future is just as linear as the past I'm afraid. Laplace's Demon and Determinism, look them up.

Face Eater, everything else you mentioned was very well said.

 

I'm not sure what gave you the idea that humans are computers, but there is very much such a thing as free will. However it was not 'given' to us by a god or son of god, it is simply man's thought based on the prejudice he has learned about the world around him. Free will is the choice of being able to commit or do an act justified by oneself. Usually based on ones morals.

 

You're confusing that with great complexity, I did as well for a long long time. Frontal lobes allow use to predict the future giving us multiple "choices" or "options" which are really just our brains doing their best to set ourselves and other conscious beings up for the most pleasure that is possible over the course of time. Selfishness constantly interferes with the greater good, but it is (or was?) necessary for evolution to work properly which is (was) really necessary for the greater good.