Is it OK to kill certain animals?

Animals who kill other animals are. The ones who don't aren't. However some animals don't have a choice because they need to kill for food and can't live off of plants. But humans can.

Again, I do eat meat. That is just the typical vegetarian response.

 

Animals who kill other animals do it it for food because they have no choice... Thats not immoral thats wanting to live.

 

I said that. Animals who fight each other for food, territory, mates, etc are immoral.

However I think you've taken "animals are immoral" out of context. What was meant was "animals do not have the ability to be moral".

 

I saw some dogs here in Miami get a rat. They killed it then left it. Immoral dogs.

 

You don't KNOW that... you have a good theory. But nature has mysterious ways of working things out...and although some HUMANS spend most of their lives dependent on grocery stores, technology, etc. when put into a situation of survival, instincts kick in.

There's quite a bit of wild cattle around the world, and are even sacred in some cultures...they do just fine...

Turkeys are actually quite smart... and chickens and turkeys also have wings... which I think is a pretty good defense on their part...
Wild turkey is all over, the way it is, and according to many people I know, are actually quite difficult to hunt because they are quite smart. I know we're talking about "domesticated" animals here, but in theory...if we stopped using them as domestic animals...they wouldn't be domestic animals. And any animal BORN INTO the wild, is born with the instincts.

If you're talking about setting farm animals, who are already farm animals FREE... well then you might have a point... but otherwise I completely disagree..

Stray cats and dogs run around and reproduce everyday... I don't see why anyone should think any other "domesticated" animal wouldn't be able to live in a natural condition...

Not necessarily... if a cow could find similar vegetation in the wild, I'm quite certain it wouldn't turn its nose up at it...

Not to mention MANY wild animals already go for farmer's crops all the time, and these species are still thriving quite well...

 

Wow, you're so awesome. So mature. I love you, be my friend.

 

oh, amen.

 

I don't take a supplement... I'm perfectly healthy. While all my other friends, (meat eaters, mind you), run around catching colds and flus, and I'm sharing drinks with them during this time, I simply don't get ill. And I'm vegan, hmm... but I guess ALL vegans are sickly and need to take handfulls of supplements everyday just to live...

I am usually a pretty friendly vegan, in the respect that I typically do not often lose my patience with people who want to eat meat... I never shove my beliefs down anyone's throat.. I only get fired up when people shove their beliefs and their ignorance down MINE...and I have no patience for such absurd statements like "vegan is not a valid lifestyle" or go on assuming that I fill my belly with vitamin capsules everyday... I have no patience for anyone that criticizes MY lifestyle, when I try to keep my respect for other peoples' lifestyle.

You found an article on a website... so now you know ALL ABOUT the horrifying affects of being a vegan?

wow.

 

Now, after replying to everything else, I want to answer the OP.

I personally don't consider myself an animal "activist" because I don't very often try to "spread the word" about how I feel. People who know me, are very clear about how I feel towards animals... but I don't protest and campaign, and I don't because it's not going to change anything. That might sound horribly negative... but when it comes to the issue of people using animals for food, clothing, etc. It simply isn't going to change, and I am well aware of it, as well as accepting of the world around me. Do I personally like it? No. So, I make changes to my own personal lifestyle. I am an activist in my own way, that way, but I don't go running around with PETA throwing red paint on people, or whatever it is they're doing these days.

So, when you remarked that no one had answered your question about killing bugs... well, I do still feel that in my own way, I make a difference by not killing bugs. I'm one less person doing it, so more lives saved. I don't need to be part of PETA, or streak the streets of New York shouting at passersby to be an advocate and to be against the killing of bugs, mammals, reptiles, etc.

I personally don't think that one species is more okay to kill, than others. I see them all equally...and that's just my personal view on it.

But, if put into a situation of defense, I would kill an animal. If a bear is trying to attack me... if I was allergic to bees, I'd kill a bee... if my life is literally in danger, I would kill an animal.

I don't kill any of the bugs around where I live, because none of the insects around here are threatening to my life. People talk of killing mosquitoes, but I just swat them away and don't bother to kill them, because if I get bit, so what? It itches for a day, and then I'm fine.

Same thing with the spiders... a spider bite, if it's not from something highly poisonous, is not going to kill you.

I leave them be. Or if I don't want them near me, I simply shoo them away, or catch them in something and let them free elsewhere...

that's all a personal decision though. Do I agree with people squashing bugs and the like? No. But I don't yell at anyone for it, either. I don't yell at anyone for anything they do...

I do pick my fights though, like someone else said. I will petition against things that are just downright ridiculously unnecessary like the whole clubbing of baby seals thing... or animals that are kept alive in ridiculously inhumane conditions...

Things like people stepping on bugs, hunting deer, and using cattle for food, is never going to stop. But people beating seals to death is just completely obnoxious and CAN be stopped, so I argue the battles that I know I have a chance with. The end.

 

It's not horrifying, just pointless. In my opinion, anyways. I don't see why that bothers you so much, since you seem to think my opinion and research worth simply dismissing. And yes, I have done research.

 

You're talking about hypothetical situations that could preserve small populations of the animals but are largely disconnected. As of right now, if humans disappeared, there would not be enough vegetation to support the enormous deer population and the domestic cattle and domestic pigs and domestic poultry. That would take down a large portion of the population simply by starvation. Add predators into the mix and many of the newer "BORN INTO the wild" animals would be picked off by predators. The populations would bottleneck for a while and possibly go extinct.

You don't seem to understand what "domestic" means. It means that some (granted, not all) survival traits have been bred out of the animals. Cows are bred to be more docile while producing more milk (which needs to be relieved, if not, it results in a painful, swollen udder). Pigs are bred to be more docile. You see what this would mean. The other thing is that domestication isn't new-- humans have been doing it for thousands of years.

Humans are necessary to the survival of some species. End of story. Do some research, even though you seem to be flaming me for doing my own.

 

Exactly. In your opinion. And your opinion is what it is, and my opinion (along with other vegans') is what it is...

To me it's "pointless" to argue with someone about their lifestyle choice and even HAVE an opinion about it. Although the vegan thing works for ME, I do not try to argue with meat eaters about how "pointless" their lifestyles are...

I do not understand this way of thinking...this way of thinking that some people seem to have, where they think that their opinion on the way someone EATS should matter... I just want to know why you even care?

Have you been personally attacked by vegetarians/vegans that have made you feel so strongly against the lifestyle? If that is the case, you also should understand that just because some people might be extreme and lack tact, doesn't mean the entire lifestyle should be attacked and dismissed.

And having an opinion against the lifestyle is one thing, but to flat out call it "invalid" is another.

And sorry about dismissing your "research" but my first-hand experience proves differently, so I just can't help but dismiss it. If you're going to sit there and make such strong convictions that NO ONE can be a healthy vegan ("unless they take handfuls of supplements daily") of course I am going to go on the defense and say that your statement is whack, because it is! it's a very ABSOLUTE statement to make...

Most of anything, by the way, written about how vegetarian/vegan lifestyles "don't work" are BIASED...which is another reason I am quick to dismiss it.

Yadda yadda yadda!

All I'm saying is, just because something doesn't personally work for you, or you don't like it, or don't understand it, doesn't mean you should tell anyone who feels differently that their entire way of living is "invalid" or "pointless"

No one's going to want to consider your opinion or your "research" when you put it like that.

 

Another example of why I responded the way I did. Flat out calling someone's core beliefs "flawed" is not an effective way of getting people to care what you think.

 

It is okay to kill all animals, including humans, if you tell yourself it is so. Personal morals are created by oneself therefore asking that question to get the general consensus is rather pointless. I believe it's okay to kill any animal when necessary, including humans. For example in the case of a life or death situation, or in self defense. Some animals I believe are okay to be killed if they provided nourishment and protein to my body, that my body needs in order for me to survive and function well. Whether somebody thinks it is 'okay' or not, it is nature to kill what is below you on the food chain for food. The only animal that actually asks itself the question "is it okay?" is a human.

 

Yes that's the rational existentialist's view of morality. Although I think that this thread was intended as a question posed to people who are all part of the same moral movement regarding the treatment of animals.

I personally draw the line at causing suffering and at animal intelligence. I can't bring myself to care whether or not a chicken gets to live out the rest of its life. I don't see any value in the life of a non-sentient being, as it has no thoughts or conscious emotions, and without these, life is not preferable to death. I do however have a problem with causing it to suffer.

 

I think you should be more like a human.

 

Yes, that's the religious person's point of view on the subject. Animals are not less than us. They are just as conscious of their own plane of reality as we are of ours, and they are created by the same 'God' as we are. It's pretty ignorant to think otherwise.

 

Thinking this way would also mean dogs do not. Have you never seen a dog convey emotion? If not then I suggest you go out and buy a dog and re-evaluate this way of thinking.

 

i believe its okay to do if the population of that certain animal grows rapidly. and for food

 

I'm not religious, it's my point of view. And I say that killing animals for my food is perfectly all right because they are less than me in my opinion. So much less than me that their lives have no value and whether or not they live or die, it doesn't matter. That is an existentialist's point of view. There is no objective morality.

Causing suffering is something I can't bring my conscience to do though. If a chicken's life ends, that's fine, it's not like it was doing anything that I would consider to be meaningful with its life, but it still suffers. So I advocate the humane treatment of livestock.