Hi guys. Swim has stumbled upon morning glories that he didn't know he had and wanted some advice on what to do. i read this on another forum and found it interesting. any advice or thoughts? This is my first post at Mycotopia. I've been a long time reader however for many years. Recently I read a book entitled "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" (May 2006). I found chapter 15 of this book very fascinating as it describes the successful morning glory extract experiments of chemist Peter Webster (who spoke at the Jan 2006 LSD Symposium in honor of Dr. Hofmann). Peter has an interesting theory about how he was able to produce a mind blowing extract that encompased all of the qualities of a powerful psychedelic experience. My research didn't stop there. Later I discovered that William Moxley, Trakman.du, Stretchman, Dr. D and some others had also discovered how to make an intense, lucid and very visual extract of morning glory seeds. These same people also mention that the extracts were not only lucid and enjoyable but also were free of nausea and body load symptoms--normally attributed to eating the seeds or using cold-water extractions. Read on to learn more about this fascinating subject....and the theory proposed by Peter Webster. Notice in the thread furthur below (from the giganthum LSA thread from the Lycaeum) that Stretchman obtained excellent results from the tincture solution he made....but when he evaporated down his extract to a tar, it was found to be not anywhere near as powerful or enjoyable as the tincture. Perhaps Peter Webster is on to something with his explanation of why the solution extracts are so powerful vs. other forms. He saids that in a solution, the 3 conformations of ergine are formed (usually takes more than an hour or so to reach equilibrium) and that these variants are allowed to reach the brain in an equilibrium state and affect a very powerful psychedelic trip (when prepared as an extract solution) at the brain receptors....theorizing that these 3 variants (hince 3 drugs) are way more powerful than a chemically pure synthesized ergine or iso-ergine (such as Hofmann tried) in inducing what's being described as very lucid and powerful psychedelic experiences by those who have duplicated an extract or solution similar to his. The chemist Peter Webster created a very powerful morning glory extract syrup that induced a profound psychedelic experience and stated "Ever since it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanantion is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the orginal extracted ergine to the three ergine variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone." He states that "the equilibrium mixture of ergine and iso-ergine may actually be the psychoactive substance of the kykeon, and of ololiuqui as well. Since ergine spontaneously changes to iso-ergine when in solution, over a period of perhaps several hours, any process to partially hydrolyze the alkaloids of ergot such as our proposed recipe -- or even the Aztec shamans' procedure for extracting ololiuqui -- should result in a mixture of the three states represented here." These are ergine-boat conformation, ergine-chair conformation, and iso-ergine chair conformation. For more detailed chemical explanantions refer to the brand-new book "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess and the Secrets of Eleusis" (May 2006) by Carl A.P. Ruck with Peter Webster (chapter 15). Stretchman below describes his extract (as Trakman.du also described it over at Erowid) as very powerful, lucid, and visual. In his words, "Preparing a tincture like above will result in a standardized (I mean 'same effect each time') highly lucid trip packed with lively vids." *By vids, I suppose he means videos or visuals. He also saids "the tincture provides an experience which would seem to combine the best qualities of a psilocybe mushroom trip with the best qualities of an LSD trip, with zero body load or weird symptoms (aside from the entheogenic state itself)" Stretchman also saids "I've tried a shit-load of psychedelics, and this is among the best of them, if not THE best.", and "the tincture showed me a magical wonderland of endless vistas and the solid extract stomped a fucking mudhole in my ass." The experiments he did may show the importance of having the product in a solution so that equilibration of ergine/iso-ergine can occur, and thus the powerful activity of the brew. Peter Webster described his extract: "a few milligrams of this extracted syrup taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by this time I had allready taken high-dose LSD several times." Trakman.du saids that his tek (use only reagent grade petroleum ether from a chemical supply house) provides a clean, pure, intense and particularly enjoyable experience out of doors in the daytime due to what the sun does. The extract gives you "A complex of various lysergic acid alkaloids which are psychoactive to varying degrees in isolation, but which taken together produce a full blown psychedelic experience no less powerful than that produced by LSD." Trakman's tek (as many of you may allready know) is found here: http://www.erowid.org/plants/morning...lory_faq.shtml However, Trakman states that the many un-inspiring trips reported by people at alt.drugs who used his tek is due to them using Naptha, Zippo, Coleman, or other grades of hardware-store variety petroleum ether. Only reagent grade petroleum ether from a lab supply will work properly--the other lesser grades will dissolve a portion of the LSA's, rendering the final solution very weak or to even have no effects at all, so stick with reagent grade--it's the only one known to work properly these days for the extraction. Between 1972 and 1983, K. TROUT ate Ipomoea violacea seeds or seed-extract several dozen times with wildly varying results ranging from powerfully colorful visuals to sedative effects. Bigwood 1979 states that "It seems probable that the psychoptic effects produced by these seeds involves an interaction or synergism between two or more of the chemicals present, Hofmann only evaluated pure alkaloids not mixtures. It is also possible that higher doses of ergine may be more likely to produce visual effects, as was the case with ergonovine." Jonathan Ott in "Pharmacotheon" page 128 states "Hofmann's description of perceiving the "unreality and complete meaninglessness of the outside world" after taking 2 milligrams of isoergine (Hofmann 1963), however, sounds like the paradoxical depressant effect experienced commonly with threshold doses of psilocybine and other entheogens, and it is possible that isoergine is visionary at higher doses." Listed below are a few descriptive quotes from authors who experienced powerful visual morning glory trips by preparing the seeds in a manner that for them resulted in potent extracts: QUOTE: (by anym who used a traditional cold water extraction and also wrote an extensive tek -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The cold water extraction is the better way to go! Remember, water is a highly polar compound. It will only dissolve the desireable polar stuff in the seeds. It will not dissolve the unwanted stuff. So if you soak the seed mush in a fair amount of cold, distilled water (a full glass is what I usually use), the water will dissolve the alkaloids in the seeds, while leaving behind the nasty stuff. It is unnecessary to use the nonpolar solvent because the water will not pick up that nonpolar stuff anyway. That nasty stuff will just stay put in the seed mush. Remember that oil and water don't mix. Just for educational purposes, take some cooking oil and pour it into a glass of water. The two will separate into layers, with the heavier water on the bottom. The bad stuff is like this oil. It will not go into the water. So you filter this water and get all of the seed mush out of it. You don't want the seed mush. YOU THROW THE MUSH AWAY!. Don't eat it, or you'll defeat the entire purpose of the extraction! Factors that will destroy LSA or otherwise mess up the extraction include light, chlorine, heat, possibly other impurities in the water, too much time, too little time, poor filtration, poor grinding, etc. To make sure that no impurities in the water like chlorine will destroy the LSA, use distilled water, or at least boil some water and let it cool until it is cold. The water should be cold. If it is warm, it might dissolve a small amount of the bad stuff and heat will also destroy the LSA. The colder it is, the more the extraction is limited to the most polar compounds. Room temp is probably okay. Do not expose the ground seeds to very much light. Light destroys LSA. You want to filter well to avoid retaining fine mush in suspension in the water. Extract for about 20 minutes. I will lay out my favorite and simplest method here: Supplies needed: seeds, 1 glass, 20 ounces of distilled water, 1 large (family size) empty tea bag or 2-3 smaller ones, Coffee grinder, spoon, bowl, a sifter or splatter screen or something similar, paper towels, stapler, a touch of liquid hand soap. Procedure: 1. Remove seeds from bags and count the number you would like to use (I recommend at least 400, and at most 600 for the first time) 2. Wash whole seeds briefly to remove any fungicides or other seed coatings. Do this by putting the seeds into a bowl and covering with some cold water. Put just a touch of hand soap in the water. Work the seeds around in the bowl with your fingers for about 10-20 seconds. 3. Rinse seeds. Put them in the sifter or on the splatter screen and rinse with cold tap water until all the soap is gone. (It is probably a good idea not to have them in the water too long, as the water might get into the seeds and remove a little of the alkaloids.) 4. Dry seeds. Do NOT use a blowdryer! Dry them well with paper towels. 5. Once they are dry, grind them pretty thoroughly in a coffee grinder, but not to the point of a fine powder. You want the black seed hulls to remain a little coarse. 6. Put the grounds into the empty tea bags and then staple the tea bags shut. Leave some breathing room in each bag since, when wet, the seed mush will expand and might break the bag if it is too full. 7. Put the tea bags into the glass which you have filled with cold distilled water. 8. Aid the extraction by getting the water into the mush. Some will tend to clump and remain in an air pocket. Use the spoon to submerge the bags and to squeeze them gently against the side of the glass. Also, you can lift and Dunk the bags repeatedly to help extract the LSA. 9. Leave glass to sit in a cool dark place for ten minutes with spoon on top of bags to keep them submerged if they are trying to float. 10. Go back and work on the bags some more with the spoon. Be careful not to tear the bag. If you do tear it and mush leaks out, you will have to filter the water. 11. Leave glass to sit for another ten minutes. 12. Work with spoon some more and then remove the bags and squeeze most of the water that remains in them into the glass. 13. DISCARD BAGS! THROW THEM IN THE TRASH! THE SEED MUSH IS TRASH! 14. Drink water. "I am not too sure if it helps or not, but on some occasions I put a few squirts of lemon juice into the water to acidify it, possibly aiding alkaloid solubility. A note on seeds: You want plenty of seeds. You also want the black ones, like the Heavenly Blue variety. (the Flying Saucers and other light-colored ones are weak) You want fresh seeds. Last year's batch will be weaker. You also want seeds that are not stored in a hot place. You might experience a little nausea, but nothing too difficult. And if you did everything right and had good seeds, you can expect to feel effects within an hour or an hour and a half. I usually fast for at least 8 hours before consuming. I don't know what difference it makes. Always be sure that you are in the proper setting and have the right mindset. Ignore these at your own risk. You could have a very unpleasant experience. Chances are that you will feel quite different, having a dramatically altered mind. You will also have perceptual changes, like increased pattern recognition in things like the carpet, the walls, or anything really. You will have closed eye visuals, which are enhanced by good music. You might have mild open eye visuals if you consumed a high dose. Usually, even at lower doses, colors will look more vibrant, smells will seem more powerful, slight halos will appear around light sources, everything will seem crisper and brighter. Your pupils will dilate. You might feel some strange body sensations, like mildly achy joints in the knees, a funny feeling in the lower spine, tingling teeth, etc. Your hands will probably feel clumsy and clammy at first. The experiences induced by Morning Glories can be quite intense, and are nothing to sneeze at. Be sure you are prepared and are psychologically healthy. If you are borderline psychotic, depressed, or manic, stay away! Avoid really high doses of LSA. LSA causes vasoconstriction, which means that your blood vessels get smaller. This results in lower blood circulation to your extremities, like toes and fingers. If the dose is too high, or it is taken too often, this can have a cumulative effect, and your extremities can go numb and even become gangrenous. With reasonable doses spaced apart at least two weeks, this shouldn't be a problem. But this is one reason that it is a good idea to start with a small dose, to make sure that the vasoconstriction isn't bad. If you have high blood pressure, LSA might not be a good idea. And do not take it in combination with other vasoconstrictive compounds like ephedrine and caffeine. I think that nicotine might be vasoconstrictive as well, but I am not sure about this. Be safe. And don't do it just to "get f#@ked up." Take a spiritual journey. Learn from it. Explore yourself. My favorite thing to do while on LSA is to play a musical instrument (guitar, didgeridoo, drums) or paint or do something meditative like that while I am coming up. Don't watch TV. It puts the wrong kinds of thoughts in your head and can result in a bad trip. When I am getting into it pretty well, I retire to the bedroom and turn off the lights and put on some good quality headphones with good music. This results in fantastic visuals unlike anything you have ever imagined if you have never used a good psychedelic before. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything! I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing. I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I had imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists! I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull! It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like. I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have ever known. And all of this with a nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only about 500 seeds. I'll never forget it. It was probably all in my imagination, programmed by my Catholic upbringing. I don't know and don't really care where it came from. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole! On other occasions with LSA (I took it while in a less than ideal mind state), I felt like I went to Hell. Everything was empty and awful and terrifying and lonely. I felt like there were worms boring through my brain, eating it. I was a hole. That is the only way to describe it. I felt vacuous. I trembled with horror. Everything felt so incredibly meaningless. I hope your experiences will take you to nice places. Be careful. Your brain is not a toy. Consider yourself warned." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (Carl_Ripken at Mycotopia) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A friend and i tried the cold water extraction. After Washing and rinsing, we didn't have a coffee grinder,so we wrapped the seeds in tin foil and dropped a 25lb weight on them repeatedly.Thus resulting in a course powder.So we packed the seed into 4 tea bag's then simply dropped them into Slightly less than a gallon of distilled water.My friend and i wanted the lsa experience to happen outdoors,so we grabbed a cd player and some clean drinking water,and off we went. i was skeptical at first, until the lsa cranked up my reality. I had not eaten anything all day so it matabolised into my system quicker.By the time my friend started to trip i think i was peaking.The visuals were amazing, seemingly generating from random math. All throughout the trip i saw complex patterns,but these patterns would take me places. At one point i was in a open air market walkng a cow through its isle's. Other times i saw beautiful architexture, and random people. I felt radiant and peaceful all throughout the trip.Thank you for this Very good and easy to do extraction. I also got a coulple of batches from the same tea bags.As the seeds are a little expensive and i did not want to waste any." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (from Nogal at the Nook) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Yes I know of someone who tried this exact method with the Heavenly Blue variety, except with the substitution of a coffe grinder in place of a stone metate (I think thats what is called but I could be wrong), and a squirt of lemon in the water, with around 400-500 seeds. Closed and open eyed visuals were extremely breath taking. Some of the most prominent visions were of Aztec/Mayan glyphic patterns, a menacing and demonic technicolor nymph made of light who tried to seduce the viewer, and this bizare trail of energy spheres which each contained a different stylized animal form(again definately of Aztec/Mayan origin). The only negative reaction experienced was a cramping and spasms of the inner thigh muscles which is mentioned in another post in the botanical forum. The cause of this is unsure, but hopefully someone will clear that up. Hope this is of help to you." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (from William Moxley, chapter 3 of "Center of the Universe") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The extract of Ipomoea violacea that we had prepared radiated power, just sitting there in its flask. A light amber, odorless syrup which, in the darkened laboratory fluoresced brilliantly blue under ultraviolet light, it was an extreme contrast with the series of messy, difficult to purify, dark-colored and discouraging volumes of intermediate sludge we had treated, and brought to mind the Curies and their arduous separation of a few tiny crystals of glowing radium from a mountain of pitchblende. The difficulties had, however, taught us much about ways in which we would modify our processes for future work. As for the extract, the following day would see the first test of its activity, with myself as the guinea-pig. I was by this time hardly a novice in self-administration of my own preparations or in the estimation of what effects they might have. I was, in fact, quite adept at taking most any supposed substance of enlightenment and avoiding nasty complications if the brew turned out to be bogus. On many occasions in New York, more than a little caution had been required to avoid not only the classic "rip-off" but also the inevitable dangers that Prohibition naturally produced. Once, a purported sample of magic mushroom I was offered proved to be only a few wasted store-bought champignons laced with powdered datura seeds. Although hallucinogenic, the experience of datura was not the least insightful, nor did it leave me with an experience which hinted at dimensions normally closed to everyday perception. I spent a few unpleasant hours also with Owsley's famous STP, which in the original dose was far too potent for human consumption. Fortunately I took only a quarter-dose, there having been evidence of difficult times for others with this synthetic drug. The morning-glory extract provided not a nasty surprise, but a powerful surprise none the less. It was by far the most powerful experience I had yet encountered. Perhaps the methods of our extraction had yielded a product more representative of the shaman's recipe than the preparations obtained by other investigators, who reported only modest psychedelic effects. The experience of that day was hardly modest, from the beginning moments it certainly did not fail to inspire reverence and humility, no matter what the direction to which I managed to guide it. The colors and geometric patterns, the rippling waves so often seen in watching clouds in the sky, the slowing of time and other typical effects so frequently described in the literature had some time ago become only minor and unattended aspects of psychedelic experience for me. Certainly, I still noticed these effects, if I took the trouble to pay attention to them. But the psychedelic experience had become for me far more an arena for the Herculean task of attempting to achieve the truly original perspective for viewing the fundamental questions that man has posed since the beginning of time. It was the task of freeing oneself completely from preconceptions, from habits of thinking that affected the outcome of seeking in unknown and unconscious ways. And of course, it was paradoxical, if not impossible to erase these filters of comprehension completely. To a very significant extent, comprehension consisted of these filters. Nevertheless, the psychedelic experience seemed to go quite a good distance in providing this ability, if one were ready to use it. Particularly the experience of that day." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (from Peter Webster, page 182 of "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" May 2006) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I had gone to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds, and to begin with, I extracted several kilos of seed using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the presence of ammonia and aqueous solutions of tartaric acid. After a couple of days' work, I obtained a nearly colorless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by then I had already taken high-dose LSD several times." "Ever since, it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanation is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the original extracted ergine to the three variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (Peter Webster, page 6 "Mixing the Kykeon") --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Years ago, with the threat of my impending draft into the U.S. Army for an extended tour of Southeast Asia, I decided to "go on the lam," and departed for Mexico with the intention of researching the distribution and chemistry of some of the famous Central American psychoactive plants such as the ololiuqui. It was during the course of these investigations that I prepared astonishingly powerful extracts of ololiuqui, alluded to above." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (Peter Webster, page 4 "Mixing the Kykeon") --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Although several self-experiments with ololiuqui (seeds of two species of morning glory) or with its purified alkaloids ergine and isoergine have been inconclusive (see the mentioned examples in part II of this paper), I can personally assure readers that the alkaloids of ololiuqui are, when prepared correctly, quite capable of producing the entire range of powerful psychedelic effects. Ergine and its stereoisomer isoergine are the two principal psychoactive compounds of ololiuqui, and also the major alkaloids found in C. paspali, yet they are not found in C. purpurea." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QUOTE: (Dr. D in alt.drugs newsgroup, topic "morning glory notes") -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. D from dejanews or googlegroups describes his extract in these words: "I took a large dose of my extract (I had purified it further using a back-extraction into chloroform, evaporation, and re-formation of the salt form), and it resulted in a very powerful experience indeed (this was back in the 60's). In some meaningful way, I felt different, and still do!" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. D notes these tips in the thread "morning glory notes": " an189...@anon.penet.fi wrote about morning glory experiences, and was questioned by jell...@jax.jaxnet.com about drying. >... I know they came untreated because there >were some tiny rocks mixed in with the seeds. I dont see the connection here, but mg seeds that are treated to avoid rotting before germination must be labelled as such. Check out seed packs at the same stand: treated seeds are labelled with large usually purple colored warnings, the law. There is no conspiracy to poison a few aging hippies (or new trippers) with secretly doctored mg seeds. >I decided to get a sample of the effect... Your experiences are practically a blow by blow replica of those reported by Humphrey Osmond and ott early (1950's 1960's) experimenters. Very typical reactions >My next step would be to attempt the extraction which is documented in >the Morning Glory FAQ. So I took 700 seeds and ground them up into a >power in my coffee grinder. It has not been stressed enough that the grinding is very important. After the coffee grinder you might try a mortar and pestle grinding, or an apparatus used to grind flour. Very vigorous grinding is necessary to ensure that the embryo of each seed is well pulverized, for nearly the total alkaloid content is in this small and rubbery part of the seed. > I then put MG powder into a small glass >container and decided that I would use starting fluid as my first >solvent. Since you found that this solvent added an aftertaste to the extract, I question the necessity of this step. In the original research paper describing the extraction of mg seeds, the pet ether preliminary extraction was simply to remove fats and oil from the ground seed material so that these products would not interfere with the ANALYSIS of the alkaloids which was carried out by paper or thin layer chromatography. I doubt whether the pet ether extraction removes anything that interferes with either the alcohol extraction or with the experience. >Next I used EverClear (150 proof) as my alcohol solvent. I mixed the >ground seeds with 4 shots of alcohol and let this mixture soak for 4 >days. I extracted a large quantity of seeds with 80% ethanol, to which I had added a small amount of tartaric acid. Since the alkaloids are basic and form salts with tartaric acid, the extraction is improved into alcohol-water mixtures. Stirring the mixture in a mixmaster blender at high speed also helps. And if you can rig up a simple vacuum filtration unit, the filtering will be easy, and allow an easy second extraction of the seed cake. All this can be accomplished in an hour or two, I would avoid leaving crude extracts for days, as the alkaloids are very sensitive to decomposition. Also avoid, if you want to evaporate some or most of the alcohol, doing it in a way that exposes it to heat and especially bright light. Putting it in sunlight will kill it. Put it in a jar in a pan of warm water and gently blow a stream of dry compressed air at it. Look at the extract in a dark room with a common "blacklight". It should fluoresce bright blue. " William Moxley (from chapter 3 of "The Center of the Universe") describes his extract as glowing bright blue under a black light and "A powerful surprise, It was by far the most powerful experience I had yet encountered." Here is the beginning part of the giganthum thread on LSA over at the Lycaeum (from 1995 or so): QUOTE: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "EDITED BY STRETCHMAN: The goal of this thread, as it now exists, is to narrow down a particular hypothetical means of extracting lysergic acid amides from the seeds of Ipomoea tricolor (morning glories) and similar plants. Although many theoretical processes have been voiced by this community, there is no established "TEK" contained within this thread. Myself and other Lycaeumites continue to speculate on the best way for such an extraction to be accomplished IN THEORY. Ultimately one hopes to be able to develop a hypothetical method in which the hypothetical average Joe could release the full power of this plant using common household materials instead of dangerous, environmentally unfriendy NP solvents and suchlike. Essentially, this thread, being as lengthy as it is, still should be read in its entirety, as it is still a work in progress at the time of this writing. Please keep in mind that in most places it is illegal to work with this plant in this manner, so if you choose to post here (or anywhere else on Lycaeum) choose your words carefully. I occasionally edit out any fallacious assumptions I tend to make from time to time. However, I'm sure some do exist. Therefore this document is to be considered fallible, until a TEK can be established. I am inclined to edit out my more arrogant statements in my posts, as well as posts that were made under the influence of excessive alcohol. However I view this document with a certain degree of sentimentality because it was my second post ever on these forums and I have grown slightly attached to it. I am therefore hesitant to remove its uglier portions, basically on principle alone. (Cruisin' on the Poopship) current listening: Ween - Live at Stubb's - Austin TX - 45 min. version of L.M.L.Y.P. Grateful Dead - "China Rider" The Raincoats - Moving Author's note; this document has been heavily plagiarized by me. I owe gratitude to an unnamed source who posted it god-knows-where around 1995 or so, the days of my flaming youth. Were it not for this individual, this shit could not occur. Flame me, sue me, or whatever, but I won't divulge my source. This is partly due to my unwillingness to incriminate anyone, partly due to I seriously don't remember where I found this. So kudos to you, anonymous researcher. May your feces smell like roses and may you lie with innumerable houris in the afterlife etc. etc. blah blah. This is destined for a certain forum so if you're still around, post something if you're really pissed off that I took such liberties with your work. I just want to get the word out and I'd credit you if I could, but that's not really cool, now is it? Now, to the work at hand. I have noticed a tendency for these forums to be filled with misinformation and general ignorance, especially about the subject of LSA's (lysergic acid amides). 1. They (LSA's) are not LSD, although, in my opinion, they work much better. 2. They (LSA's) are just as illegal to possess as LSD (ie. highly so) when in the LSA stage -so possession of the seeds required is not illegal (up to a certain quantity), but possession of the extract is (only if the pigs know what it is). 3. A water-based extract from the seeds, although the preferred method of indigenous ("primitive") people, is not necessarily the best. When one goes this route, one encounters the chance of the following; -a feeling of nausea due to certain compounds in the seeds _a reduction of trippy potential due to these same compounds This phenomenon is most likely responsible for the negative reviews of LSA's currently viewable in Erowid's trip reports. It seems like nobody knows what he/she is doing!!! Grrr!!! Rant!!! Staying true to the methodology used by indigenous ("primitive") peoples is highly admirable, EXCEPT when one voluntarily ingests something harmful along with the desired entheogen, goddamnit! That said, the following method is probably not for purists. Although the end product is one of the best "hallucinogens" I have ever ingested, if not THE best - and I've taken a shitload, please keep in mind that all this took place about ten years ago and I am now a hermit, (as of several years back), devoted entirely to my sobriety, and I could not possibly encourage anyone to follow this recipe, as this would possibly violate laws, and probably get someone wasted in exquisite fashion, which is "wrong" - or so I infer from the existing propaganda available on the subject. Now, to business; -Acquire a large quantity of morning glory seeds. Keep in mind that 500 seeds equals one decent dose. Experiment on your own to find the gram/seed ratio which I have long since forgotten. Therefore, supply yourself accordingly (this could get expensive unless you grow your own). The following seeds have been used to awesome effect: Heavenly Blue... yeah! Nice! Pearly Gates Flying Saucers Choose organically grown! Either that or spend a long time washing your seeds with dish soap, and that method is not exactly foolproof for ridding your seeds of any extracurricular poisons the nice people at the seed company have seen fit to include (!!!). -Also invest in some Petroleum Ether. This goes by the name of "Naptha" or "varnish and paint maker's Naptha", available (last I checked) at (large hardware store) and other places. NOT to be confused with diethyl ether, which is some bad shit, has to be disposed of by the bomb squad, etc. Don't fuck with that, get yourself some "pet. ether". Ostensibly free from aduterants, pet. ether is a handy solvent to have around the house. -Now, get ahold of the highest proof alcohol you can possibly obtain. Clear Spring grain alcohol is one of my favorites (180 proof) but the quality of the end product rests upon the highest proof alcohol you can get your hands on! Reagent grade ethanol, or some 200 proof shit from some reputable moonshiner (better make damn sure he/she's reputable, don't want lead poisoning from some refurbished auto part that has found new lfe as part of someone's still, add'tl info avail. online, utfse y'all). In a related note, 151 Rum is not recommended by my source. He/she seems to think that a 100 proof beverage is preferred over any 151 rum. Hmm? is it because rum has other shit dissolved in it that makes an extraction with 151 undesirable? I do not know. However, bigger is better, get some 180+ proof alcohol and go nuts, peoples. No half-measures here. Okay, here we go. -Grind seeds to powder. If you have an espresso grinder, awesome. (certain coffee outlet) sells a "burr grinder" that should work, although that shit is expensive. Hypothetically, one should have a friend that works at (coffee outlet) and could appropriate one extralegally. I have had reasonable success with a regular coffee grinder. Pulse at no more than ten seconds at a time, (due to heat, and wear and tear on the machine), shaking during grind so that all the particles are evenly ground. Grind fine!!!! -place the seed powder into a jar- (jar #1). Cover with pet. ether. The guideline here is "can't use too much (pet. ether), can use too little." 500 ml/ 500 seeds seems to be the basic rule, although a little extra ether can't hurt. -put the lid on the jar. Shake like crazy. Let sit for 20 minutes, shaking as much as you see fit. -shake jar, then filter contents of the jar by pouring through coffee filter into second jar. I find a strainer (diam. 6" or so, equipped with coffee filter) useful. Maybe pouring contents or jar 1 into a strainer with a filter in it over a glass pie plate, then transfering contents of the pie plate to jar #2, maybe that would help, certainly couldn't hurt. -if you like, save the filtered ether. You can get at least five more processing cycles out of it. Just don't drink it, please, for fuck's sake. -most importantly, SAVE THE FILTER PAPER WITH SEED POWDER ON IT! -let the filter with the seed powder in it dry THOROUGHLY. This could take several days. -in the interim, clean jar #1 THOROUGHLY -once the seed powder has dried, transfer this to the sparkly-clean jar #1. Add 2-3oz. of alcohol per 500 seeds. Let this sit for three days, shake it if you like. -filter the resulting substance. Discard the seed powder on the filter. Keep the alcoholic liquid for use. RESULTS; -Drink the alcoholic liquid. This is what is known as a tincture. 1-2oz. is standard for a decent mind-opening trip. ALTERNATELY: "the anarchist cookbook method", with refinements -evaporate the alcohol THOROUGHLY, preferably in a glass pie plate. Keep away from dust and other shit. This may take several days. Mild heat is okay, but not recommended. Scrape the resulting goo off the plate. Encapsulate. Two capsules is enough for a crazy trip. If this type of solid extraction is desired, one could use isopropanol or methanol in place of the alcohol mentioned above... evaporate it down THOROUGHLY, ecapsulate and then ingest. DO NOT DRINK ANY SOLUTION MADE WITH ISOPROPANOL OR METHANOL!!!!!!!! VERY UNHEALTHY!!!!!!! PRO'S AND CON'S -the liquid extract will result in a wild, lucid trip, sort of like LSD but more visual. It is quite possible to do some intense reading on this plant; ie. The Oxford Book of English Verse or Jung's Man And His Symbols. I remember dosing at night, and looking at the xmas tree with wonder. I was also intrigued by the concept of circles, and toyed with the idea of rearranging the living room furniture into a circle. This plant gives you some strong-ass feng-shui. However, the prime time for this particular plant ally is morning. So, if you are still awake tripping, the sunlight streaming from the window will do magickal things. My source says to dose at dawn for maximum communion with this fascinating plant. -The solid extract might as well be an entirely different substance entirely. I shared some of this extract with my friend (we dosed at night), 2 capsules each. It comes on like mushrooms; a very disorienting high initially. At first, my friend (no stranger to the world of psychedelics) accused me of poisoning him! At least at first, before he settled in, pulled out his drum machine, and made simple beats to which he turned the delay up all the way so that the echoes of each drum hit made new beats, each based off the echoes of the previous, so sublime! ...hard to explain but VERY TRIPPY. The solid extract discombobulates one's senses before leveling off to a powerful trip somewhat akin to mushrooms with less visual aspect. I suspect that the tincture is far more bioavailable than the solid, wherein the solid extract takes time to be broken down by one's body, like mushrooms, and the trip itself reacts accordingly. Hard to move, hard to talk, but still tripping in divine fashion. Keep in mind, this all happened about 3+ years ago. I don't currently have anything incriminating or otherwise uncool at my current place of residence. Hell, I could have made up this entire thing, being a pathological liar and all. OK guys, what do you have to say about this shit? This is by far the best LSA extraction info available. The holy grail if you will. Anyone else done this? Anyone care to flame me with ridiculous disrespect? Refinements, corrections, etc. are all welcome. I wish I was a' headin' out... on a northbound train... ------------------ -If memory serves me right, the erowid file on this tells one how to make a solid extract only, and does not go into the benefits of various processing methodologies. My seed/dose info is pretty tight as well; I stand behind that shit. Plus you get mini experience reports, on both the tincture and the solid. Yeah, the chemistry's basically the same at erowid, but I like to think my explanation is a little more thorough. Plus, you get to try to read this information through my charming fucking personality. -Preparing a tincture like above will result in a standardized (I mean "same effect each time") highly lucid trip packed with lively vids. For a clumsy comparison, visualize your best 2-10 hit acid trip ever. Now, multiply the effects by two. Remove unwanted physical effects, nasty bodily sensations, feelings of paranoia and dysphoria, and the "cloudy head" confusion and inability to concentrate associated with the typical acid buzz. Add vids, esp. rainbows everywhere. Add the shroomy "organicness" -like where trails seem to swirl in in from some mysterious nexus, spiral around a couple times like seawater, and disappear back to whence they came (a pitifully pathetic description of this marvelous phenomenon). -It is only with this method that this plant can be used to its fullest potential, with the least wear and tear on the human ingesting it. -It will take about 8-10 hours for this experience to run its course. -I thought of combining this with psilocybe mushrooms. I tried hard to make tinctures; none remained active. Maybe there is a way, maybe not. For further experiments, I would (were this legal and if I had any interest in doing this) simply try eating a cylindrical piece of solid extract the length of a wine cork and slightly less than the thickness of one's pinky (probably the psychoactive content of 1000 seeds, but of course may vary) along with 1/16-1/8 oz. of respectable mushrooms, depending on how "respectable" they are. Or alternately, 1/16 oz. of a somewhat fresh batch of "respectable" mushrooms plus two fl.oz. of tincture. This may provide something akin to the overwhelming gnosis of the fabled mushrooms + acid experience,(rumored to be a dangerous combo, but a real barrel of monkeys on those warm summer nights). -This extraction can also be performed on Hawaiian baby woodrose seeds. I have no information on this, having never done it. My source did not divulge this. -An extraction performed in the manner described in the initial post produced no nausea whatsoever. In fact it was the cleanest and most interesting trip SWIM had ever taken. To reiterate, SWIM would consider a theoretical extraction like this hypothetically quite feasible and pleasurable were it legal, apart from questions of NP solvent purity. Ye Stretchman ********************* The following shorter reports are from those that may not have used the extracts above but none the less have some interesting observations to relate: Mezza (Mycotopia): "First attempt - 9g Heavenly Blues - crushed the seeds with a hammer and did a cold water extraction. The water didnt taste too bad. Mixing the wet seed pulp and eating it w/Lemon Yogurt was bad Took about 2 hours to come on with a good 45 minutes of considerable nausea. After the nausea passed, excellent trip. Great, LSD-like visuals (but slower) and very lucid. Great body high, music was fantastic. 2nd time - 9g of Flying Saucers in a cold water extraction. Minor visuals, but a very auditory trip. Was by himself on this one and felt a little spooky. A good trip, but not anything compared to the first one. 3rd time - HBWR seeds w/Naptha wash and alcohol extraction. Went through the whole process and made that alcohol tincture. If I remember correctly, 10mL of tincture would have been equal to 10 seeds. 1/2 teaspoon dose (2.5 seeds) produced a nice euphoria that was amplified by MJ. A full tsp produced a great trip, with no nausea (save for one member of the group) - mild visuals and 'digital' patterns and tracers. Trip lasted about 4 hours, with some heavy-duty lethargy at the end. Still, did not compare to the first Heavenly Blue water extraction. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Piper methysticum (bluelight): "Morning Glory seeds are definitely the most euphoric psychedelic I've ever taken during the onset and the first part of the peak. Not even a strong dose of MDA could compete with the euphoria I felt from 12g of Morning Glory seeds. However, the comparison of LSA alkaloids to MDA is ridiculous. The visuals from Morning Glory seeds are quite inconsistent for me. The first time I tried them, at 9g, the visuals were very dull, but the mental and physical aspects were awesome. My second time at 12g, the visuals were beyond amazing. I got the feeling of being completely in a warp through time and visuals were flying past me and unimaginable speeds. A couple of my unexperienced friends were talking about the tracers they were seeing at the same time this was happening to me. I had to laugh. With just 6g my third time, I also had some pretty amazing visuals, though they weren't nearly as mind blowing. Next, I ordered some Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds. With eight seeds, the visuals were again, amazing. With twelve seeds, I had little visual effect at all. ..At least nothing I could make sense out of. With six seeds, again, no visuals. This I found to be strange, and I also noticed that I enjoyed the Morning Glory seeds more despite the part of eating a handful of seeds. However, through all of this, Morning Glory has become one of my favorite psychedelics of all." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- bluedolphin: "Nah I get some impressive visuals off around 200 seeds. I've even had kaleidescopic vision from ~225 seeds. Granted I tend to get more visuals than most people, but at your dose I'm not surprised at all that you had some strong visuals." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DJAngrE: "oh hell yeah, i've had major kaleidoscopic vision (but only when i close my eyes) i've actually had the strongest OEVs of any drug i've tried including mushrooms... LSA is the best music drug in my opinion, next time maybe take a couple hits of weed (with a much smaller dose of seeds of course) i promise it'll be just as sweet --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- human: "I tried out LSAs for the first time recently and I found them to be the most comfortable substance I've ever been on. While I don't have that much experience (mdma, mushrooms, 2C-I), I enjoyed the somtic aspects of LSA much more than the other substances I've tried. It seems you also found them quite comfortable. And yes, I believe LSA and MDMA are contraindicated. LSAs constrict blood vessels, and mdma raises blood pressure/heartrate. Bad combo. I also agree with the suggestion to smoke a bit of cannabis to ease the nausea. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PimpTurk: "LSA is a really great drug..with roughly 200 heavenly blue seeds i saw ganesha morphing on my friends wall...not to mention all the mind bending breathing every object was doing.....and yes the comeup is EXTREMELY euphoric , it ranks up their will rolling in my opinion.....im thinking about trying them again VERY soon ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MrNice: "The pesticides wont kill you, they will make you puke a lot though. Im pretty lucky with MG seeds, my highest dose was 500 and even then i didnt get any nausea or leg cramps. I normally stick to around 250, i'll get a nice 7hr trip from them...the best way i can describe how i feel on them is serene. Everything feels so good, colours are brighter, music sounds richer, plus their cheap & easy to get hold of. Usually have an LSA trip about once a week. One of the best effects is that you dont seem to get a comedown with them, its more of an afterglow. Your not tripping but you feel really relaxed and content. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would just like to add that Peter Webster had the following to say (August 2006) in reference to the thread over at bluelight concerning morning glory seed chemistry: QUOTE: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reading it through, I see two misconceptions that could be corrected. morninggloryseed says "I assume that the 'boat' vs the 'chair' thing is referring to d-ergine vs l-ergine. D-ergine is flat, while l-ergine is not. Also very interesting to hear Owsley's comments about LAOH (he refers to it as 'hydroxymethyllysergamine' but I am certain it is either a misprint or a mistake as the chemical is a-hydroxyethyl-d-lysergamide.) I had long ago theorized that this may be the real active gem in the seeds. Animal tests all point to it being an active psychedelic.and it is indeed the closest thing to LSD found in nature.far closer than d-ergine. Owsley claims Hoffman himself told him that LAOH is very LSD-like. I wonder if Hoffman has notes in the Sandoz library about his experiments. Maybe they are still being translated. I am buying this book for certain." the boat and chair forms are just alternative conformations of the D-ring, not different isomers (d- vs l- has the hydrogen at position 5 going in the other direction.) The hydroxyethylamide long thought to be psychoactive actually can never reach the brain, since this compound is a labile adduct of ergine and acetaldehyde. It is therefore transformed into ergine and isoergine rapidly, even by mild extraction methods. vbest regards, peter and.... Quote: >Do you mind if I post your comments to the thread? Please do. Also a comment about the graphs: The question here is what conditions is the extract subjected to (and for how long) before (and maybe even during) the HPLC? For instance, some researchers believe that perhaps all the content of MG seeds exists as the d-hydroxyethylamide, and it is the extraction/purification/testing procedures which then produce the APPARENT result that the alkaloids are ergine, isoergine, and maybe still some hydroxyethylamide. Thus your testing procedure might also be subject to this problem. A test that would fill us in on some important data would be to have the rate of epimerisation of ergine to isoergine in basic, neutral, and acidic media (and yes, the equilibrium is not far from 50/50). For this, you'd need to separate one epimer with chromatography, and then measure optical rotation over time. A little tricky to get it right unless ypu've done similar testing before. LSD takes a week to equilibrate even in basic conditions (to 88:12), whereas lysergic acid itself is almost instant in strong base (to 85:15). Prof Nichols believes the ergine-isoergine equilibration is rapid even in body fluids, I suspect it is not, and that this is one reason for the uncertainties we deal with in the book. But no one's got the hard data! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End QUOTE ---------------------------------------------------------- Important Notes: Chapter 15 of the book is about Peter Webster's experiments with morning glory seeds, and later with ergotamine tartrate (Gynergen) tablets. Page 180 contains drawings which attempt to visualize the ergine and its epimer in their true three-dimensional states as ergine-chair, ergine-boat, and iso-ergine chair conformations. Ergine (as opposed to the synthesized chemical that Hofmann sampled) always occurs with its epimer, and it is unstable, oscillating between its dichotomous orientatins. The combination of the oscillating ergine and its mirrored iso-ergine appears to be more psychoactive than either in isolation. This is why Hofmann's experiments with the synthesized chemical were unsatisfactory. Stretchman saids "I've tried a shit-load of psychedelics, and this is among the best of them, if not THE best.", and "the tincture showed me a magical wonderland of endless vistas and the solid extract stomped a fucking mudhole in my ass." The experiments he did may show the importance of having the product in a solution so that equilibration of ergine/iso-ergine can occur, and thus the powerful activity of the brew. Trakman du also makes it very clear that only lab-grade reagent grade petroleum ether should be used with his tek (also note that Stretchman used an extremely clean grade of petroleum ether back in his experiments before 1995, and this grade without impurities appears to be no longer available in hardware stores). Trakman believes that other grades such as over the counter naptha, zippo, coleman etc will all dissolve a portion of the lsa's, rendering the final solution or brew to be very weak, or even to have no effects at all. Stretchman also points out that only everclear should be used in the final solution, so as to have the lowest percentage of water in the product or else nausea can still result. Dr. D points out that a pecentage (about 5%) or so of tartaric acid (used in beer making, wines, etc.) can be added to the alcohol solution. Since the alkaloids are basic and form salts with tartaric acid, the extraction is improved into alcohol-water mixtures. Stirring the mixture in a mixmaster blender at high speed also helps. And if you rig up a simple vacuum filtration unit, the filtering of the seed cake will be easy. QUOTE: (Danbian in the Stretchman LSA thread --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A couple little notes...LSA's (unlike some other trippy alkaloids) actually exist as salts in the plant material, so an initial pull with an acidic solution wouldn't be too effective (unless you were using a stronger acid that would break the alkaloids from the naturally occurring salts). Instead, one could defat as a first step, then basify and continue w/ the extraction. Also, if the alkaloids are left in free base form as per the last step of the procedure, they would have to be gobbled up pretty soon. If you wanted to store them for any length of time, you'd want to end up with salts, which are much more stable (If I'm not mistaken the tartrate salt is best for this purpose)." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The final solution should glow bright blue under a blacklite states Webster, Moxley and Dr. D. *So far I have never read of anyone on the net doing a simple blacklight test on their final solution to see if it still contained amides other than the 3 people mentioned above. Ergot Alkaloids and Ergolines from Convolvulacea: Chemical Name Alternative Names ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- d-Lysergic acid amide (Ergine) d-iso-Lysergic acid amide (iso-Ergine) Lysergic acid-alpha-hydroxyethylamine iso-Lysergic acid-alpha-hydroxyethylamine Ergonovine (Ergometrine) Ergonovinine (Ergometrinine) Chanoclavine-I Chanoclavine-II Penniclavine Elymoclavine Agroclavine ----------------------------------------------------------- If Stretchman and Trakman.du were still around I would ask them to describe their trips in even more detail---What sorts of visuals did they see during the trips? Did they see geometric patterns, landscapes, architecture, or similar. Stretchman describes his tincture as creating "endless vistas" of visions, and as even being more visual to him than LSD. This is a fascinating subject also in light of the theories proposed by Peter Webster with support from others (refer to beginning of chapter 15 of the book). *Please do tell more if anyone here at Mycotopia has had visual/audial trips off the morning glory seeds.
The initial erowid link won't work for me, but I've read plenty about these little bastards. I have some MGs which are in need of disposing, so a water (or juice) extraction is probably in the works. I've tripped the seeds (and HBWR) about a dozen times total, always just eating the seeds (either chewed or crushed in yogurt). The resultant trips have had decent visuals--though less than shroom trips under 3 grams--and crazy mindfucks often more profound than far more visual and incapacitating experiences with other drugs. This alcohol tincture sounds fucking awesome though. Now, only to find a cheap, fairly quick supplier of pure PE.
