The Bible, the Papacy and the Church

I was thinking of Luke 14:5 where it says; “Who of YOU, if his son or bull falls into a well, will not immediately pull him out on the sabbath day?”, mainly because when I think of livestock, I think of cattle but Matthew 12:11 says: “Who will be the man among YOU that has one sheep and, if this falls into a pit on the sabbath, will not get hold of it and lift it out?", perhaps that is what you are thinking of.

 

that it's Matt 12:11.. when being questioned about the sabbath

Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"

 

Glad I could help out.

 

Question Can the Pope EVER have a wife??

 

Yes.

St Peter the first Pope did have a wife (although she may have died because she is nowhere in Scripture). Traditions say his wife suffered martyrdom and that he also had a daughter.

However, there were none who married after they became pope.

celibacy is not essential to the priesthood, and never having been married is not essential to the Papacy. What is good and beneficial is to remain celibate as St Paul writes, and also think of someone working as a shepherd for over a billion Christians. Do you think being married is conducive to being a good bishop (the Pope is the bishop of Rome. Even in the eastern Catholic churches which allow for married men to become priests--bishops must not be married).

 

i think its stupid any church to think or to have its men reframe from sex with woman.

EDIT ****

 

but wait after peter who else was married?

 

Among others, Felix III; Hormisdas; Siricius; Silverius; Agatho; and Hadrian II.

Felix V was married and had many children, but was an Antipope.

 

A God does not need all these things, people do. The church is a cultural institution. The papacy is a stewardship position. The master is away. On the masters return, the stewards are reckoned with. Peter, the original steward delegates additional stewards as the church grows, new priests cardinals, and the like. A cultural institution. These are all employees, they do not carry the final authority of the head office. Some employees are efficient some are not. Some will seek to extend their authority and lord it over others. The church is supposed to feed people, not lead them to salvation. Having said all that, all these synonymous Sumer myths, contain at their heart, metaphysical principles. By metaphysical I mean, of the essential nature of reality, as in not everyone who says lord lord but he who keeps my sayings. The figure Jesus did not ask for worship, but that his words be heard and recognized as authoritative.

 

I like this guy.... Good stuff.

God is the church, but the church ain't necessarily Godly.


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That's an excellent point.

 

hi smiley

 

The Church is Holy. John 14:16 promises that God, the Holy Spirit, will be with the church forever to help guide the Church in terms of faith and morals.

The people, the servants (even the Servant of the Servants of God, the Pope), of the church are the ones who can be ungodly.

I agree the Papacy is a stewardship position, but you must understand what stewardship means. The Pope, or an ecumenical council of bishops, can define (not create) and infallible dogma of faith or morals through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit that Christ said will guide and teach the Church "all truth". If you do not believe as such, then you have no faith in the Power of the Spirit and deny the veracity of Scripture (John 14:26; 16:13).

 

Who sits at the right or the left hand of God is not for us to decide. Dogmas exist. They neither fail nor succeed, they may be adhered to or not. The Holy Spirit comes to the church and none of us are without instruction.

 

I never said the Church will decide any dogma, the holy spirit assists in defining the dogma.

Most Christians will say that God is a Trinity, Jesus is both fully man and full God and the NT canon. These doctrines are not explicitly stated in Scripture, but only pointed towards. It is the Holy Spirit that helps the Church to define these doctrines.

You seem to be saying two things. one that the church is fallible, but that the Holy Spirit teaches the church (is God fallible?).

 

Father, Son, and Spirit are with every man. The Father in the form of conception, the Son in the form of the egg, the word, the genetic information passed from the creator, conception, to the deed of man, the ability to gather together, through communication. The Holy spirit speaks to and through man. The Trinity describes the ray of creation. Thought, word, and deed. The ones who need instruction, are those who do not know.

 

The Holy Spirit may advise us, but that does not mean all decisions and doctrines in the Church have been made in the help of the Holy Spirit. Some people alter doctrine to suit personal interest.

 

that is why I clarified in my original post, but will expand:

During ecumenical councils (that means all the bishops from all the local churches are there, like Nicea I, Chalcedon, Ephesus etc). the first example of an ecumenical council comes in the first few years after Jesus ascension when there was a disagreement on circumscision.

Or when the Pope speaks Ex Cathedra ("from the chair [of Peter]". this means that only on matters of faith and morals, when explicitly stated by the Pope, it is dogma and must be believed.

Not everything the Pope says, or what comes from a council is infallible. The Second Vatican council was a pastoral council, and did not really dogmatically define anything related to faith and morals.

 

OK, I understand what you mean. The actual instance of popes using "Papal Infallibility" is actually extremely rare. Maybe there is a reason for that.

Regardless, how did Catholic teachings come to accept "Papal Infallibility"? I have never seen any Bible passages that support the idea.

 

there are some that point towards it (Matthew's Peter/Rock thing, although it was not used until the Reformation. the fact that Peter is almost always listed first. He also gets charged by Christ to "feed [christ's] sheep" in John's ending chapters). That would indicate Petrine Primacy, and then the exact doctrine was formulated over the years. A Poe in the 2nd century sent a letter to excommunicate bishops in asia minor for their views on the date of Easter (they held the belief that it should fall near when the jews celebrated Easter).

Eventually, it was defined at the First Vatican Council.