Do you feel LSD is cheating?

;D

 

Yo' karma is so greasy i used it to cook the fried chicken at the family reunion!

 

yeah brah you need dem protective goggles n shit.

 

Its all about them freedom fries though!

 

I think it is safe to say that Hmm and other cynics have truly not learned to see the forest through the trees.
"If God dropped acid, would He see people?"

 

The act of tripping itself isn't a replacement for anything other than the act of tripping. Nothing can truly replace anything else, if you want to get that technical. However, tripping can most definitely lead to these things you are talking about - combining wisdom with compassion, or practicing skillful means.
You are totally entitled to expound upon what tripping means to you, but to say that tripping is "just merely" blank, blank, blank, is kind of limiting. Who are we to say what tripping can be or can possibly mean?

I think now it is you who is missing the point. I called them delusions in response to your explanation of the results of tripping...because both are delusions. Without putting words in your mouth, you seem to be saying that meditation, or "skillful means" is a superior way, or perhaps the only way, to self-realization.
All I am saying is that I achieved self-realization while watching a cat with half an ear eat rotten food out of a trash can after staying up and drinking all night.
That's because there is no inherent meaning in the experiences or acts themselves. Someone can find more meaning in the act of drawing than the most devout monk can find in 40 years of meditation.

For you to understand why they are delusions, you would need to understand why I called them delusions in the first place.
You just seem to be not getting it.
And very angry about something to boot. This isn't the kind of conversation I want to have, if you are not open to outside opinions then there is no use in continuing.

How appropriate.....you end your post with a bundle accusatory insults projected onto me, none of which are true. Doesn't that make them delusions? Great way to sum your post up.

 

lmaooo, that last post i thought was a funny read.

 

Agreed.

 

what i was getting at (and meant to expand on when i had the time) within my previous post is this. iv said before that ones level of "sanity" is reflected in their speech, really its a reflection of the alignment or split between feeling and headtrip. there is a bridge between our heart and mind that does sit in our throat. what we give resonance to feeds the vision we hold.
i think its silly to dismiss the importance of speech. i find truth to be one of the more important virtues to cultivate, as it is word charged with authentic emotion. in this way the voice bridges the inner world with the external. if you dont realize that our words define the world we percieve, you havent been paying attention. if our intent is to unify our expirience, our external reflections need to mirror our highest inner feelings. it dosent do any good to read books and cultivate an "intellectual enlightenment" if your entire being isnt engaged in the proccess. we start from the bottom up, not the top down. thats why we use the word acension to define the process.


"Kind prince, everything that serves the true nature of life is the way. Everything that does not serve the true nature of life is not the way. In order to not mislead you i must reveal precisely that everything is the way and everything is not the way. To protect and hide oneself under a beautiful concept or to follow a religion and do nothing to serve the world is unvirtuous. it is counterproductive to enjoy oneself in a monsetary all day long, thinking one is practising holiness. to a person of the way, everything is the way. to a person who has disintegrated himself from the way, everything is not the way."

-lao tzu

 

not only is there no way, there is no being to walk it . . . yet still this all tends towards nothingness maturing into a more compassionate and truthful nothingness. bubble, bubble, toil, and trouble.

 

I believe we agree on this. however my post was in response to the implication of the Original post; that tripping is some kind of backdoor to enlightenment. i disagree. Its not.

we are trippers are we not? i think i can attempt to define it. outside of traditional or modern ritual context tripping is for the most part for "fun" personal enjoyment.
Oh i can see these colors, oh i can realize this and that. if anything tripping is only valuable in the direct experiences it elicits and those are just experiences. The trap is to place significance on them.

Very true. meaning is implied. its in the perception of the person who ascribes that meaning.

No. i'm saying tripping is merely a tool. like meditation and skillful means. you know meditation can actually limit you if not done correctly. same with tripping.
i see many people who just trip like they drink a beer. I also see some who ascribe a lot of spiritual meaning to tripping and then end up using it as a crutch. we should use tripping, meditation, yoga, and anything else we can to the best of our benefit and in ways that are not self-limiting.

Were we to just take drugs and then have some profound thoughts/experiences and say "whop stick a fork in me im done. im enlightened" we would be kidding ourselves.

you must understand my frustration at your lack of an elaboration. Its easy to make empty points without backing them up. i'm still waiting for you to prove to me that all those things are delusions. Maybe i would get it if you actually explained your viewpoint with detail. i was expecting that in your response but alas no cigar.

this is a very good conversation. However you did not state an opinion originally you presented something as fact. I would just like simply for you to clarify. If i am wrong, show me why so i can learn. I am seeing your perspective because i used to hold a similar one and it seems to me like you think tripping makes you enlightened. i say it doesn't. were either of us enlightened we wouldn't be having this conversation.

i think you are right in saying that actions are inherently void of significance and meaning. Those things are products of a mind that labels and conceptualizes. However i think that it is flat out incorrect to state that meditation, causality, samsara, ect are delusions. i would simply like to know where the foundation for this is.

actually if you look back the accusations were true. you DID NOT provide clarity to your statement about those things being a delusion. you seem to think everything is a delusion, and you even admitted to me yourself that after tripping and watching a cat you were self realized.

correct me if i'm wrong, please.


Im sorry if you felt insulted. You seem like one of those all too common folks who think that tripping (without ritual context) is some kind of insta-enlightenment. I used to feel the same way. I see a lot of people who feel the same way. Now i disagree.

even shamans in the amazon know that taking drugs doesn't bestow enlightenment. in fact that's not why they do it in the first place. their goals are less than lofty and spiritual they seek a practical result from their experiences. imagine that. something you can use.

so much for looking at a cat on acid.

 

i think nothingness is far too easy of a copout. its an attitude more than an observation.

 

agreed. we have to harmonise the life of expression with the life of nonbeing. even though everything is inherently 'nothing' it still 'is'. polarity is the driving force behind existence itself. the utility of a clay pot lies within, but it could not exist without the barriers of clay that are the pot.

if we could realise the miracle of a single flower clearly, our whole life would change.

 

loving it!!

 

I really don't think you can say that if you haven't taken it, being someone who has taken it myself.

I also think that you are narrowing your mind in saying that you've come to better realisations on other drugs, when you haven't even tried LSD. You have nothing to compare it to. I've tried a lot of things once, and LSD is by far the most unique experience to any other drug relative to it. Salvia has hints of it, but is itself completely different. That's as close as you'll ever get to resembling acids effects on perception, which isn't even near.

 

I'll dose sometimes when I have some life changing dessiccion needes to be made. Then I flip a coin!haha I just enjoy the flushing it gives my head.