The position of woman in islam

In fact, Dollyfizz is right when she says that there are extremist Muslims and liberal Muslims, not to mention the Sunni/Shia conflicts. It would be no more right to tar all of them with the Sharia law brush than it would be right to lump all Christians or all Americans together. Christians haven't exactly loved one another over the years. As usual, the extremists get most of the press coverage, while most of the liberals get ignored.

 

:cheers2:

 

Dolly, I wonder if you can comment on this. I don't know about where you live, but here in Canada violence against women is unacceptable, although like other crimes, it does happen.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...g-like-humans-are-gods-beings/article1287259/

 

The position of woman in Islam is Biblical.
That is: woman has a right to exist and even be protected, as long as she is subservient to her Master (aka Husband) and for as long as she never has sex with anyone but her Husband (aka her Master).

It is one of those things you can truly admire about these major religions.
But I still prefer Ancient Greek's views on this.

 

London. Violence here is unacceptable too, as it should be everywhere. It happens though. There are cases of young Muslim girls (few boys too) who are subject to beatings and honour killings. Even the ideas and basis of these barbaric occurances are just that. Barbaric and unacceptable. They never were acceptable and there's nothing in the Qur'an that suggests it's okay or permissable. It's always been wrong.

There are Islamic communities in the world that remain old fashiond. People are so quick to label Muslims as sexist and violent to their own, let alone terrorism. Yet go back a few years and even here in the West it was acceptable to 'own' your wife, to beat her and hurt her and she would never ever leave her husband. Of course it still happens here far too frequently even in the non-Islamic community and it's just as unacceptable.

The article is about a type of people that have one collective belief or issue. There are lots more people who aren't Muslim who do the same disgusting things to their women and their wives. Violence takes place among every race, in every community and in every whereabouts.

Anyway, without drifting too far- That was a really sad read. Unfortunately in Afghanistan the beatings of these Islamic women are too common, too acceptable and there's nothing enough to prevent it. I pray for them.

 

This is soo wrong. Islam doesn't believe that at all.

A woman should look up to her husband and respect him. But a man should care for his wife. The prophet (pbuh) said "The best of you is the one who is best to his wife" and so your wife should be looked after and treated well by her husband. It is the husbands duty to protect her, so she can trust him and respect him. A woman's husband is not her master, he is someone who looks after her in return for her respect. It is said that the man is the head of the home and the woman is the heart. Islam believes that men and women are different and have different roles, not that one sex is more Godly than the other.

Not only that, but in Islam your mother is considered 3 times more important than your father. She gave birth to you, nursed you and raised you. They say that a mothers love is the greatest love there is.

A woman's husband is not her 'master'. A married couple belong to each other, neither needs to be more or less subservient.

As for a woman never having sex with anyone but her husband, it works both ways. A man should never have sex with anyone but his wife.

 

FYI, Islam means submission and is the name of the religion.
People who believe in it's tenets are called Muslims not Islam.
And what Islam is based on is written in Koran.
I don't make things up, You can go to a local library or book store such as Barnes & Noble and review translated copy of any book of any major religion and see for yourself what's written in it before claiming who is wrong or right.

I didn't say any of those books, including Koran, order man to maliciously and purposefully mistreat his wife.

And aside from what books say, if you owned the horse or any kind of pet, would you mistreat it? Of course not, you would most likely treat it nice ,even with affection, as long as it served you well and didn't create any kind of trouble for you.
So why shouldn't men treat their wifes the same way you would treat your pet?

Yes, husbands in general have a duty to protect their property.

She MUST trust , respect and obey her husband , not that she has any options there.

Of course husband is the wife's master, per Biblical and Koran's commands.
Just because he is a master doesn't mean he won't look and care after her, opposite is probably true.

Yes, different, to put it mildly.
Like woman in the household inherits half of what man inherits , and it takes I guess twice as many women to give credence to what they say as opposed to one man and etc.
So, she is not equal of man unless you have a highly flexible definition of the word equal.

It actually says paradise is at the feet of mothers. I think it is a matter of decency and due respect to the source of one's existence and primary care, and neither Bible nor Koran lacks in recognizing the proper place of parents.

Right , it works both ways and they both can be stoned to death in public for proven charge of unlawful sex, except man can have four times as many wives as women can have a husband and men are free to have sex with all of their concubines with mutual concent, while women are never allowed to have sex with anyone other than their husbands.
What a great way for a man to live life joyfully (as far as man's almost limitless right to have sex with women is concernned).

But I like ancient Greeks even more, they allowed for a man to have wife to be in care of his family and raise good children for him, a Muse to inspire him for arts, sciences, sex and other creative tasks, and plenty of courtesans to have momentary fun with without any further obligations.

 

FYI, Islam is a literal translation for peace. See the similarities in the words Salam and Islam? Submission is a meaning of the word Islam, and it refers to submission to God. Muslim is a literal translation of 'one who submits' and therefore a Muslim is a person who submits to God.

I didn't mean to imply that you made anything up, I just think whatever source you got your information from wasn't correct. I don't agree with a lot of those translations of the Qur'an out there. Unless you're bi-lingual in Arabic, it's going to be difficult for you to understand the Qur'an for what's really written. Some of the words are translated literally, when really a whole sentence or even a paragraph would be more appropriate. Some Arabic words don't have literal translations in English. If you want to understand the Qur'an properly, I suggest you do a lot of research and read the works and translations of someone with a good background and research in the study of the Qur'an and Islamic studies. I'm not a Muslim, but I do find the religion remarkable and incredibly interesting, I'm looking to earn a qualification in Islamic Studies. You'll know yourself how hard it is to make sure you're learning the correct information.

I didn't mean to suggest you thought this at all. I'm just trying to say that the husband of a Muslimah is not her master. That's all!

Bad symolism. I can think of a million reasons why my husband better not treat me as his pet!

A woman isn't her husbands property. A husband and wife belong to each other, even Islam views it like this.

Who told you that? I live near a huge Islamic community. My boyfriend is Muslim (though I haven't converted) and I can tell you now, the woman does have options there. She should be able to depend on her husband and he should care for her. There's a huge difference.

Can't speak for the bible. Society used to be a lot more sexist than it is now, and (as I said before) religions do see differences in gender and see the different roles they play. He is not her master, he is her husband. Those in Islamic communities who believe a man to be superior to his wife are following tradition and culture, not the religion.

Islamic women aren't meant to worry about money. Women are always to be taken care of and looked after, money shouldn't be an object to them. If men earn more money than women, it's because they have more of a responsibility to pay bills and fund for the home. I'm not saying it's right, but that's why. Today women should be earning equally because they live equally, but the Qur'an was written along time ago and (again) Islam can see the differences in men and women.

No. Not that this isn't wrong, I was just trying to explain to you importance of women in Islam. It's said that when someone asked the prophet who the most important person in the world is, he replied "your mother" and when he asked again and again, he got the same answer. Only when he asked for a fourth time did he get the answer "your father". Considering this, you owe your children love and education, and love for their mother. Every woman is a mother.

Again, who told you this? It's just a silly misinterpretation. A man shouldn't have a concubine. Each wife should be treated and loved the same. It's not acceptable for a man to treat any of his wives differently. The first wife also gets the say so of the second. If she doesn't support his choice in marrying a second woman (or third or forth) then he shouldn't do it. He should also have a good reason for marrying more than one woman. Lots of men dying in battle is a good reason. Or a first wife who can't have children is a good reason. Also it's important to know ones heritage, and if a woman gets pregnant in a marriage where there is more than one wife then you'll still know who the parents are. Yet if a woman marries four men, she has no idea of knowing who fathered the child. I'm not saying plural marriage is right (actually I don't agree with it at all) but this is how it is. And it's not just women who should be saving sex for marriage. Men shouldn't be having sex with women outside of wedlock either.

 

This thread was too long to read in it's entirety. I wonder if anyone has mentioned female circumcision, which is said to be good for a woman's health but in actuality causes disease.

 

Where do you get your information from ?

Quite frankly am not interested in going through all your post (too many errors and I don't have patience and time to go through each one), but it is too plain contradiction of fact to say that Islam does not allow man to have concubine.

May be you mean to say "man shouldn't have concubine" expressing your individual opinion on it, but to suggest that Koran does not allow man to purchase and own a concubine is to clearly demonstrate that you have no knowledge of subject in discussion.

I have studied Ancient Near Eastern Religions (have read parts of what remained from sources that got translated, quoted, edited or otherwise ended up in bookshelves of libraries and bookstores), read Bhagavad Gita (not entirely, only some fragments, I admit), I have read Old Testament (Genesis , book of Job and some other sizeable parts, but not the whole compilation), New Testament (in it's entirety, Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, Acts, Romans all the way through Revelation) and Koran (first several chapters, which are also longest [they get shorter from one to another chapter], and some shorter ones dealing with particular daily activities).

I can tell you there are chapters that instruct man how to treat a concubine or slave.
There is no limit in Koran to number of female concubines man can purchase.
It does not say man has right to rape his concubines but it says man has full right to have sex with her if she concents and that it is not considered an adultery (or zina).

I didn't say anything about man having right to treat his wifes differently, only that he has right to have four wives.

As to sex out of wedlock, see above (re: concubines).

I was not discussing reasons why it was permitted.
Only that it was so.

 

It was once common for christian women to be oppressed and treated as property. Why is this not viewed as a shortcoming of that faith? There seems to be a double standard here. Quite honestly, when it comes to important social issues, a religion is more likely to be influenced by the local popular culture than the other way around.

 

Quite honestly, when it comes to issue of treating woman as man's property or pet (not to confuse with abuse and oppression) I don't get why she shouldn't be treated as such, no matter what religion, time or culture you are discussing.

 

GTFO, troll-boy...



ZW

 

I assume it doesn't take more than a pea-brained fool to call Aristotel a troll-boy, so feel free


‘It is the best for all tame animals to be ruled by human beings. For this is how they are kept alive. In the same way, the relationship between the male and the female is by nature such that the male is higher, the female lower, that the male rules and the female is ruled.’
Aristotle, Politica, ed. Loeb Classical Library, 1254 b 10-14.

 

What happens when the women have a problem with that system?

 

Sexual Revolution.

 

Islam doesn't believe in Slave Women. The Qur'an and Islam recognised the problem with slavery and concubines and didn't ignore it. It was never acceptale for Muslims to have slaves, only to accept them, look after them, respect them.

Ma Malakat Aymanukum refers to five different categories of people. First is those who were wed wrongly, since God would never split a marriage. Once a Nikkah is taken place, what happened before hand can be forgiven, even if it was haram. Second is your spouse, the person (or people) you are married to in the eyes of God. Third is those who are slaves. Slavery is NOT acceptable in Islam, nor are concubines. When the Qur'an was written, God accepted that there were women who belonged to people and they were not free. This is where Muta marriage comes in, which is haram. Fourth is is servants and maids. Servants and maids are those who work for a living. Even though they are those who work for you and take direction from you, they merely are employed and are free. Fifth is those women who fled or left their husbands who should be treated as though they are free. Only in the first and second categories is sex acceptable with Ma Malakat Aymanukum. Nikkah is the only valid marriage, Muta doesn't count.

Ma Malakat Aymanukum literally translates as "What your right hand possess" but the meaning is those that depend on you, like your husband, your wife, your children or your servants. Not your slaves, because a slave is someone who is not free and that's haram. This is where the corrupted scholars got it so wrong when they said that temporary marriage was okay, or sex with Ma Malakat Aymanukum was allowed. Sex is only permissable between those who are married to each other.

 

Holy crap! I wish I'd seen this before I'd bothered replying (politely) to your post up there. You'd make a good dog you know.

 

Why don't you just go read the source istead of wasting my time having to respond to such posts in the process?

Here is the link:
http://books.google.com/books?id=6osxHeW6XDsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=koran#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Dedication sounds like being apologetic of religion, so you can't accuse translation of being maliciously biased or anything.

 

Wasting YOUR time?! So don't reply! I'm not making you.

I'm not looking at your link. I did click it, but without knowing where the translation came from and what it means, I don't want to know.

You can't just translate something word for word, or listen to a preacher who hasn't done his (or her) reasearch or has biased and oldfashioned views.

Anyway, it's given now that we each will come to different conclusions and won't agree. If it had been a private discussion I probably wouldn't have bothered, but since we spoke about it on a public message board and I'm sick and tired of the negative view people have on Islam, I don't think I wasted my time.

I'm out.