Christians, do you feel any responsibility for others rejecting Christ?

To defend belief in the face of knowledge is the statement, "I don't want to know, I want to believe".

We must have faith only because we cannot announce it as true. A with holding of judgment.

OlderWaterBrother, are you older than the trees? I must tell you that I learned far more from looking into a wet and muddy ditch than I did from looking at the Bible on my shelf. In the ditch, I saw the wind ripple the water and the clouds pass by over head. I noticed that the Bible had collected dust.

 

LOL

The bible does have elements of Truth sprinkled in it tho, imo anyway.

But yea, to be used as a primary Source of information is just taking someone else's beliefs and making them your own. And most people do so because they're adopting beliefs they like the idea of, not because they have a reason to believe it's true.

 

I think that if you feel God's Spirit in another person what that person says is gonna carry some weight with you. The spirit of truth and the spirit of love carries weight I think. And I think that that is different than personality worship...

 

I would feel bad if anything I said or did turned people against Christianity. Unfortunately, some of the people whose names may come to mind when the word "Christian" is mentioned, particularly certain televangelists and politicians, strike me as the very opposite of the teachings and example of Jesus, and seem very close to the teachings and example of the Pharisees who attacked Jesus and whom he criticized. These establishment Christians, like the Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus' time, are in bed with the political and economic elites, are judgmental of anyone who doesn't conform to traditional values, and are obsessed with the letter rather than the spirit of the law. That behavior should turn anyone off. But I don't think you can necessarily tell the real Christians by their label. The two post-World War II figures who, in my opinion, best exemplify the teachings and example of Jesus are Gandhi (Hindu) and Warren Buffet (atheist). I feel blessed to know many atheists whom I believe are carrying on the Christian tradition abandoned by many so-called Chrisitans.

 

No where is truth or reality absent. It is the belief in what is not there that distorts the view. Brothers comment was that the Bible teaches.

 

I agree, what men find auspicious can be found in puddles of mud.

 

I agree.

 

But what if your faith agrees with knowledge?

Again, wrong. It seems you have no idea what faith as.

I see your problem, if you want to learn something from the Bible you actually have to open and read it. I don't know where you got the idea you only had to look at it on your shelf.

 

I cant speak for dope but me personally...

I opened the bible, read the book of Genesis, half of Exodus and then became atheist.

 

I always feel bad when I hear about anyone, especially a Christian, molesting a child. Jesus made his own position on chld abuse very clear (Luke17:2: 'It woukd be better him that a millstone be hanged about hi neck and he be cast into the sea than that he should offend these little ones." Christian child abusers not only commit this offense, but give scandal to the Church for their hypocrisy. However, most cases of child molestation have little specifically to do with Christianity. A large number of cases are family affairs involving incest--much of it denied or suppressed. A study of 2,181 non-family perpetrators reported between 1989 and 2002, found that nearly 12% were teachers, coaches, or camp counselors--persons in positions of trust and authority over children. A little less that one-third of the other perpetrators were non-Catholic clergy, from a variety of denominations. Catholic priests outnumber the non-Catholic clergy, but certainly not to the extent people probably think by virtue of media reporting of the lawsuits against the church. Lawyers go for the deep pockets. What all of these creeps have in common is position of trust and/or authority over children. And unfortunately, wherever that exists, a certain amount of child molestation seems to exist as well. So I don't feel bad when its always Christians we hear about molesting children, because it's not.

 

I opened the Bible, read the book of Genesis, and became a Christian. I've never been able to look at a human since without seeing God.

 

The only way faith can agree with knowledge is to be vigilant only for the truth, not by restating or defending our beliefs. Belief is not required for the truth to be true. Faith is not required to speak the truth. Faith is not required to hear the truth. Truth requires only recognition to be known. Knowledge is, being shared. Does this qualify as an idea of faith?
If I thought I could read and interpret the Bible by simply looking at it on a shelf, I would have a problem, but if I thought that the bible could jump up and comb my hair, I would be insane.

 

Well anyway, it's easy to see you never got to Prov. 18:13.

 

Nah, I'd rather not fear God.

And wow @ God telling you to hate anything.

 

You "know" of course that a person can have knowledge of what is untrue as well don't you?

And of course nothing is required for the truth to be true.

As for faith, you still don't seem to have the hang of it, here maybe this will help; Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.

Then why did you say; I must tell you that I learned far more from looking into a wet and muddy ditch than I did from looking at the Bible on my shelf. I'm beginning to think you may have a problem.

 

So you love what is bad?

They were talking about child molestation earlier, does this mean you love child molestation or that you just don't hate it?

Interesting.

 

It's beyond me where you got the assumption that if you don't Love something, you hate it.

Do I think child molestation is a crime that the guilty deserve punishment for?

Yes

Do I hate it?

No

 

You don't hate it? Interesting.

Maybe you could explain how you really feel about it?

Are you ambivalent about it? No feelings one way or another?

If so, why do you think it should be punished?

If you feel that is neither right or wrong, good or bad, why should it be punished?

It seems you just like to make sweeping statements like; you shouldn't hate anything but in real life, the simple truth is, there are some things you should hate.

 

I don't hate it because hating it will not make it go away and will only harbor negativity within myself with absolutely no positive results.

I apply logic in every area of life.

And hate isn't the opposite of Love, fear is.

No there is nothing you should fear or hate for that matter. If you choose to do so that's on you but feel free to explain to me what your hatred for child molestation has done to alleviate the problem?

 

You cannot have knowledge of what is untrue. That which is not true does not exist. You can observe what is real, such as a false statement.
Faith without works is dead. My yoke is easy and my burden is light. To yoke is to join, easy joining is a little willingness, and my burden to use the true sayings. Both our science and our beliefs emerged from the night sky, our knowledge from the day. I said I learned more from the ditch than a closed book on a shelf because it is true.