Christians, do you feel any responsibility for others rejecting Christ?

I think you have hit a point here, which some of us in the '70s experienced firsthand. In my teens I was very conscientious and evaluated my Christian culture. I became an Atheist, later softened to Agnostic. Then the counterculture hit us and we Christian expatriates embraced Eastern Philosophy.

And, in a roundabout way came to embrace aspects of the gospel of Jesus for there he was another Buddhist mendicant in the Middle East. So, some of us tried to live the values of Buddha or Jesus. Some of us even looked a little like him (Check pic below).

And to those of us with this renewed spirituality the mainstream Christian Churches in our culture were "judgmental of anyone who doesn't conform to traditional values, and are obsessed with the letter rather than the spirit of the law."

So personally, yes, Christians ran me away from Christianity.

 

:smilielol5: You can know that a lot of things are untrue, such as the Earth being flat, it's just not true.

Lies exist, it's a part of life, you deny it if you wish but you would be better off just accepting it.

yes you can.

That's true.

I don't know about yours but Jesus' yoke is.

Making it up as you go along again?

But that is not what you said, you used the Bible which implies much more than just saying a book.

But even using the word book, what you said is almost meaningless, as I've ready mentioned to learn the most from a book, you have to open and read it not just look at it on a shelf.

 

First try answering some of the questions you were asked then we can go on to your questions.

You were not asked;
Why you don't hate.
If you apply logic in every area of your life.
What the opposite of hate is.
Or if you have any questions for me.

So please try answering some of the questions that were asked.

 

As I've mentioned many times before; Jesus said there would be two groups that would say they were Christians, one of those groups Jesus said he would accept as brothers, to the other group he would say; get away from me, you workers of lawlessness, I never knew you. (Matthew 7:21-23)

So my question to you is; which of these two "Christian" groups do you feel ran you away from Christianity?

 

I cannot know untruth, what is not true is not real and does not exist. We can examine a statement and see that it is false, but you cannot examine the flat earth, there is nothing there to see. A misunderstanding is not a type of understanding, it is understanding missed or the absence of understanding. To say that one can see what is real and also what is not real, is to confuse the meaning of both terms. If you say the bible is more than a book does that mean that it is a magic book, or a book and table and chair? It is Jesus himself that reportedly says, "my yoke is easy and my burden light. I do not put words in his mouth, I read them from the bible and repeat them to you. You suggest that what I say is almost meaningless yet it is you that gives the world all the meaning it has for you. The reason you are having difficulty comprehending my meaning is because you are not seeking comprehension, but compliance, does it coincide with what I believe which seriously compromises your situational awareness.

 

I already explained how I felt about it. I said it's a crime I think deserves to be punished.

No I'm not ambivalent about it, I feel it's a crime that should be punished.

I never said I don't see it as right or wrong, I said I don't hate it.

There's like a million things I'm not a fan of but don't hate. I actually cannot think of anything I'd honestly say I "hate" at this point in my life. For the same reason I gave in my previous post.

Now

Please explain to me what your hatred for child molestation has done to alleviate the problem.

 

I have no difficultly comprehending your meaning but you live in a world of your own making and do not live in the real world and that is fine. If you wish to try and force the world to fit your imaginary world that is fine too but there is more to heaven and Earth then is dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

I'm replying without reading others responses.. just so you know.

I used to be a Christian, and when I was, no I was never offended.

I think the one instance where people are very offended are parents.. who raise their children to be Christians and then their children grow up and change religions or chose to not believe in any religion at all.

That is what happened in my case.

I think my parents feel responsible in some way for me deciding I do not believe in any religion. Then on the other hand, they know I have gone through more then enough in my life to question.

So.. I can understand that.

 

The ones that are in the Majority in the USA (and most likely the ones in majority in the rest of Christendom)

The Baptists and other fundamentalists who would be the crusaders against Islam, yet are almost as severe in their interpretation of morality constraints.

The Christians that for years made secular laws subscribe to their religion in America (stores closed on Sunday by law when I was a kid - liquor sales in many parts are not made until after noon on Sunday still)

And what was that placing your hand on a Bible to take and oath? Even today, tho they have gotten rid of the Christian specific part it is rote in oaths to end with "so help you god" as if! The last time I was deposed I had to explain at length why I would not take the oath as prescribed.

Oh, and the Christians who discriminated against me and actually threatened me when I was a professed Atheist.

So, it is hard to discern every group. I know there are Christians who actually live the life rather than push doctrine but the powerful christian culture that is America is the one that I left.

Also, I do not subscribe to any RELIGION. I am loosely into Eastern philosophy but not a Hindoo or Buddhist. I have a spiritual master, Meher Baba and have travelled to his Samadhi in India twice and on the way once visited Assisi Italy to show homage to St. Francis.

Of course I am not Catholic, tho I have a pic of St. Francis and a Rosary on my Puja table.

 

What you think is not what you feel, they are two different things.

But even though you, as always, continue to dodge the questions put to you, I will answer your question.

What your hatred for child molestation has done to alleviate the problem?

My hatred for child molestation has made sure that it has no place in my life. There is no reason to quibble about the relative "value" of child molestation, as some do. There is no reason to keep a "open mind" to child molestation. Why would anyone want to pollute their minds with the possibility that child molestation might have some sort of "value".

By hating what is detestable, those who do so become better people because they have removed all possibility that they could take that course of action.

Take the ex-president of the United States, whereas he might have thought torture to be wrong and a crime, he did not hate torture, he did not think it detestable and so when there was a situation that he thought was sufficient to warrant torture, he did it no matter what he thought of it.

 

The Bible also says that few are are those on the path to life, while many are on the road to destruction. This would seem to indicate that the majority of those that call themselves "Christian" are not true Christians. So I would say that what you left behind was not "Christianity" but what you so aptly call Christendom, false Christianity that long ago left behind the teachings of the Christ.

 

A human who finds wholeness is worthless to an institution of enslavement. My experience with Christianity leaves me feeling unworthy and wanting. The fragile human ego is the institution's best friend, and the institution knew that when the bible was written. God created the world and it was good. The end. However, there's more. And more. And more. You can't enslave an entire populous and create a best seller if they think they're good.

The temples of the institution can't be built without the slaves. The ego enslaves and that is capitalized on in the bible. If you don't do this, you're not worthy. If you're not like this, you're not worthy. Sorry, folks. I'm not going to waste any more of my precious time reading something that tells me I am not good. God already said I was good and bestowed his gifts upon me for THIS life. There's no prize package waiting for me when I die. I'm not going to trade away my wholeness for the gains of an institution. God most certainly doesn't want me to do that, otherwise he wouldn't have made me whole in the beginning. I am perfect in his eyes. Man's EGO is the one telling me I'm not.

Jesus brought the light. Wholeness. The institution didn't like this, so he was killed. They told us he died for OUR sins. Obviously, freeing the sheeple from mental slavery and showing them the light IS a heavy burden. So heavy that you die from it.

God = good. I am good. God = me. Well, it doesn't LOOK like rocket science, but it sure seems harder to understand....

OR.... I'm completely wrong and I AM evil. And a sinner. And need saving. In my death, I'm going to be damned to a fiery hell for eternity because I didn't do what the "good" book said.

Dunno. Guess I'll find out when I die, but for now, I'll just continue to enjoy God and the gifts he has given me.

 

Nah I don't dodge anything, I don't know how I could possibly be any more clear about how I feel abut child molestation. It should be punished but hating it will do nothing about it so I don't bother.

I didn't say I'm ambivalent, you said I was.

I didn't say I don't see it as right or wrong, you said I dont.

All I said was I don't hate it, you added the rest.

You're just mad I don't say what you want me to say.

You don't have to hate something just because you don't Love it. Just because something isn't black doesn't mean it's white. Then again the bible does keep its followers with limited ways of thinking so I wont even fault you for that.

I personally don't have to hate something to get me to not do it. Self discipline works just fine for me. I didn't have to hate child molestation to get me to not touch on kids any more than I have to hate murder to stop me from killing someone senselessly. Ironic u bring back the example of child molestation when any given high ranking member of your religion is more likely to commit that crime than myself.

Perhaps you should go to some of your pastors/priests and other important figures in spreading the word of your precious bible and ask them why they have such an "open mind" about child molestation because I for damn sure didn't say I did.

 

Devil means, "slanderer". He is a slander against the holy child of God and his statement is nobody is perfect.

 

You said you think it should be punished but thinking and feeling are two different things, once again you dodge the question.

I did not say you were, I merely asked if you were. Again you dodge the question.

I did not say you didn‘t, I merely asked if you did. Again you dodge the question.

I didn’t add anything, I merely asked for more information. Again you dodge the question.

Mad? What gives you that impression?

Although I think it would be nice if you answered the questions asked of you, rather then just dodging them, it doesn’t bother me in the least.

In fact you are the one that uses the words of anger in your communications, in fact I’m amazed you haven’t started using them already.

Once again you are trying to divert the conversation.

Where did I say or even imply that there are only two emotions?

In fact I was the one who asked you if that if you don’t hate it and you don’t love it, how do you feel about it?

You have said any of the millions of emotions that fall between Love and hate?

Did you? No.

You merely said; I think is a crime and should be punished. But quite honestly you are about the only person that I’ve heard of that would consider that an emotion.

Interestingly, you ignored the example of how some times self disciple breaks down under the “right” circumstances.

Also some how you keep thinking that I’m a Catholic, I’m not and I can guarantee, that you are more likely to commit child molestation than any “any given high ranking member of” my “religion”.

The only important figures that I have are God and Jesus and I can once again guarantee that they don’t have an “open mind” about child molestation.

I certainly glad you don’t have an “open mind” about child molestation and I don’t believe that I said you did.

Oh, I see I spoke too soon about your using words of anger.

 

True.

Actually he made himself a slanderer by implying that God was withholding something good from mankind.

 

OlderWaterBrother says, "My hatred for child molestation has made sure that it has no place in my life".



This may be true, what is definitely true is that he finds a place for hatred in it.

 

And he also said that would be like God if they knew the difference between good and evil. He was a liar from the beginning to end.

 

That is true, there are things that deserve to be hated in one's life.

 

OlderWaterBrother, you have not yet learned what it is to speak the living word, you are lost in translation. You see yourself the caliphate, the keeper of the secrets to the inner tabernacle or the pharosee and I stand before you, Pilate. I offer you up the words of Jesus, I tell you I find no fault and you tell me over and over again, the untrue is true. crying out with the rabble, "give us Bararabas", and thus crucify the truth. Now we find ourselves, having crucified the truth, the centurions casting lots over who gets to wear the robes of truth.