Can a queer ever be masculine?

Based on some of the recent threads -- I'm totally curious. Does being gay mean being totally effeminate? Or is there a middle ground? And why should it even matter? I'm just curious. Do you prefer masculine men more than effeminate ones? Can you tell me why?

And is it purely a sexual matter? Or do emotions play a part? What is the odd superiority of masculinity? I mean, this has been going on for centuries -- isn't it time to recognize the qualities of both sexes? I mean, there is such a thing as feminine strength -- big time. So what's up with hating/avoiding all the obvious queens? Is this not just internalized homophobia? I'm just trying to understand...

--QP

 

Extreme macho behaviour can be just as annoying if not more so than extreme effeminate behaviour.
Of course gay men can be masculine. Can straight men be effeminate? Yes of course they can. The reason that gay men appear to be more so is because the overtly effeminate ones are the only ones that get noticed. If you see a group of men and one of them is carrying on like a big flappy wristed queen which one are you going to notice? On the gay scene this behaviour tends to be infectious and so the men who hang out on the gay scene a lot do appear to have more affectations than those who dont.
The media still perpetuates the image of the gay man as the pansy. Gay men are still stereotyped in most films and television as either very effeminate, drug addicted, dying of Aids, promiscuous, intrinsically unhappy etc etc. Perhaps this is a reflection of societies discomfort with the fact that gay people can and do live just as happy fullfilling lives as everyone else. Perhaps heterosexual men feel threatened by the fact that gay men can be just as strong and masculine as any straight man, sometimes even more so. Perhaps they need to denigrate gay men as a way of separating gay men from themselves and thus denying and repressing their own homosexual feelings and tendencies. Eg- if gay men are like that then Im obviously not one of them etc.
Sexually I prefer a man to be more on the masculine side but on the other hand I find men who are hung up on proving and over playing their masculinity (ie-machismo) very unattractive.
Balance and confidence are better than any kind of extreme. Im sure some people may find very femme guys attractive though. I know a very masculine football player who only ever goes out with very skinny femme guys. I think their is room for everyone.
If a behaviour harms noone then there really is no good reason to be against it. I think people who are very anti anything need to undertake some self analysis and find out why they feel so strongly against whatever it is they are against. Its usually because of some kind of cognitive distortion that leads them to hold some negative and/or narrow belief that really serves no one including themselves any good.
I personally dont want to live in a society that pigeonholes me and doesnt allow freedom of expression. There can be nothing more stifling or depressing.

 

sexuality has nothing to do with personality, any one person can be how they want and still love who they love.

 

Right on! That's what I meant to say. Glad I'm not the only soul to feel this way. Queers are queers -- jocks or poets -- we're all the same. Make any sense?

--QP

 

Yeah! You said it right! (IMO)

--QP

 

^.^

 

I very much agree wirh bukulu here.

I also believe that people tend to feel better about their own shortcomings and failures when they criticize the behavior and attitude of the others, although those are harming no one.

A good thing to do is to know whom you feel attracted, and work your way to getting with them together while leaving all the others to their own devices...

KD

 

I'm attracted to masculine guys. and by 'masculine' i don't mean über-macho-bodybuilder type masculinity --that actually is a turn-off as well. I'm not attracted to buff guys at all. It's rather the Steve-McQueen type of masculinity that I find myself inextricably and utterly drawn to. Guys who are guys on every level. I mean, I am gay -- I'm attracted to men. And it's not just the cock or ass I'm after --whether I like it or not-- a guy's personality plays a huge role in whether I find him attractive. I think we can all agree on that. and just like we're all different people here, we also find different things attractive. is this really difficult to understand?

it's like trying to explain why you like Paganini but not Beethoven, for example. try to do that on a rational and logical level. it's a matter of taste.
it's got everything to do with me being attracted to men and male traits. femininity just turns me off. guys who put make up on turn me off because, for better or worse, i associate those things with women and feminine behavior. And because I really like the way men look, and putting on make up ruins it. just look at Adam Lambert -- he looks more like a chick than a guy -- why would i be attracted to a guy who looks like a woman? I'm gay not a straight guy.

i really don't think there's anything wrong with effeminate guys -- if that's who they are then they shouldn't change themselves for anyone. it's just not my taste. i don't like everybody just like not every person I have met has liked me. to expect that is silly.

and yes, there are plenty of masculine gay guys out there. I mean, do you really need to ask that? It's like making an assumption that no gay guy could for all their worth be masculine, and thus the masculine ones must be pretending and hiding their inner queen or something. that is what some of the effeminate ones say about us, straight-acting gay guys. you see, both sides stereotype the other, and they're both wrong. it's the default position to always analyze other people in relation to oneself. and thus, if you're an effeminate gay guy you'll never understand the masculine gay guys and the masculine ones will never understand the effeminate ones, if they never exit that frame of reference.

 

Totally agree One's sexuality really doesn't matter that much in the bigger scheme of things.

 

Okay, here my two cents on the issue.
I do not consider myself to be "Gay = Homosexual" I do consider myself to be bi-sexual as I am open to sexual encounters with ether sex. I do consider myself to be mildly effeminate by choice. What can I say, I like pretty things, colorful nails and bling in general.

I have quite a few homosexual friends ranging from flaming effeminate to very manly man. So, no I do not believe that Gay = Effeminate. I do believe that it goes to individual self image. If one feel girly one is more likely to be effeminate. However, I know guys who are homosexual and not at all girly in there appearance or behavior.They are simply more comfortable with guys then girls.

I agree with Sobebella: "sexuality has nothing to do with personality, any one person can be how they want and still love who they love."

Love and Peace to all. <(^o^)>

 

Yes, queers can be masculine. I like both, and I like men to have a bit of both like me. Machos are so annoying, and on the other hand I find fems funny.

 

Indeed they can.

 

I like the first part of your quote -- but the second part worries me. I'm very much from the old school of thought (Silence = Death), and I think it can be a mistake not to educate people about gay stereotypes and such. For example, are all gay men effeminate? No. Are all gay men into sleeping with hundreds of partners? No. Are all gay men wild about getting their asses screwed senseless? No.

Yet many folks believe such nonsense (largely due to the media). Nobody wants to hear about the quiet queer in Boston who collects American stamps and maybe has oral sex twice a month with someone he's known for a decade. Remember, the reason Matthew Shepard was selected by his killers -- was because they believed the cops would not give a damn about a dead queer. This used to be the same sort of twisted logic racists felt about African Americans. So silence can be a dangerous thing.

I think it's important that we honor and defend each other. No two gay people are alike. So why allow any straight person to lump us together? That can easily be misinterpreted as weakness. And gay folks are much stronger than that (IMO). Anyway, I understand where you're coming from. So please don't perceive my comment as an attack. Everything is a process.

--QP

 

Very well put! So what will it take for us to have a better understanding of each other? I don't think both groups need remain mutually exclusive.

--QP

 

I like this answer. It's one I am very much in agreement with. You've expressed much honesty and truth in very few words. Not many folks can do this.

--QP

 

Straight up! You get my vote. Big time.

--QP

 

It really shouldn't. And I agree that things are getting better. But it wasn't all that long ago when talented artists (like Elton John) had no choice but to pretend they were straight. Hell, even Liberace did his best to remain in the closet!

Johnny Ray is a good example of how being "outed" as a queer could ruin your career -- the dude was a singing sensation -- adored by millions of girls. But he's barely remembered now, and all because of being tarred and feathered by the media as a closet case. And he had a much better voice than 90% of the male Pop stars from that dark era. It's a very sad story.

--QP

 

people fear the diffrent and (what they see as) strange, and will do their damnedest to shoo it under the carpet, hence the "dont ask, dont tell" policy. if they cant see it its not real, and if its not real it cant hurt them, the basic wiring of humans i supose, but just means we need to be repaired and learn that things arent bad just because their diffrent.

 

Another excellent analysis! I very much agree with every word you said. And I think there should be space enough for folks to be either girly or manly: I mean, it comes down to personal choice. It's not like the world is only populated by one or the other -- we really do need both. It makes life much more interesting.

--QP

 

Right on. I think "different" folks are often the coolest: Van Gogh, Emily Dickinson, Janis Joplin, Diane Arbus, etc. They saw the world in a totally fresh way. Yeah, they were often perceived as "odd" during their lifetimes: But look at the beautiful work each artist gave to the world. It really is something to be grateful for.

--QP