Fate what does the concept mean to you?

Discussion in 'U.K.' started by Maon, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    I just think that the danger of accepting fate is that we can become complacent in doing anything that will make a change to our lives or the world.
     
  2. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    I agree, but it depends on whether you see fate as an external agency, or a dynamic force with which we can interact.
     
  3. Paul

    Paul Cheap and Cheerful

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    Very true ... I definitely believe in a form of synchronicity.

    Imagine if we were just pawns in a game where we were constantly placed in situations just to see how we'd act?
     
  4. spacedreamer

    spacedreamer Member

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    I often find that people who talk about fate are usually the ones who prefer not to take too much responsibilty for their own actions. "Shit happens" is usually their motto when really they should be saying "I really fucked up there". Yeah, sure, everything can be seen as being preordained according to our quantum universe where time runs backwards as well as fowards and though we are just essentially "viruses with shoes", that still doesn't mean that we don't have a direct effect on people and events that surround us. All these high-minded notions of Fate and co-incidence is just rubbish when is comes down to it. Our lives are filled with millions to one odds against things happening that when occasionally we notice it we go "wow, spooky" like something great and meaningful has just happened. It happened to me the other day. I was reading a book in a pub, towards the end of the book one of the characters asked the other what time it is. "12:30pm", they reply. Then, I, at the exact instance that I read those words, looked up at the clock on the wall behind the bar and it said 12:30pm. Not a minute before or after. The odds of those two things coinciding with each other were astronomical. Had I not looked up at the clock, I would not have been aware of the coincidence occurring. But so what? There's nothing special about it. As for your personality being shaped by fate, I don't think I've heard such utter nonsense. We always have a choice even if we come from the most fucked up of backgrounds.
     
  5. Maon

    Maon Member

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    I don't think of coincidence as special or things as wooo spoky or as spmething which is meant to be but rather as of something which runs ahead of us and can be seen for a certain distance as likely things to happen due to things which have led up to this point ... we each stand on top of a pyramid .. is that too obscure i may over time be able to articulate my ideas .. if you all haven't fucked off by then :p :)
     
  6. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    I don't like to believe in fate. I like to think that we define our own lifes, our own paths and our own futures. But sometimes, just sometimes, there's a twinkle of doubt in my mind. When someone enters your life, or something happens, that has such profound consequences on your life, when so easily you could have missed that person or that opportunity coming to you, then, sometimes, I have some doubts. Maybe it was meant to happen....
     
  7. Peace-Phoenix

    Peace-Phoenix Senior Member

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    That's easy to say when you believe in nothing. Nihilism seems so empty, so destitute....
     
  8. spacedreamer

    spacedreamer Member

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    Things that are meant to be? Yeah, like the sun comes up every morning or I need to go to the loo every day. These are things that are LIKELY to happen but it still doesn't mean that they WILL happen. The earth could still get hit by an meteor before the sun gets it's chance to come up or I could get hit by a bus before I get to the loo. Yes, there is a future ahead of us but the idea that we all stand on top of pyramids with a grandstand view of everything ahead and behind and to the sides is frankly ludicrous. Sorry but I think the Greeks had a better idea when they described our journey through life as of us walking backwards; only able to see the things that had already happened. That is why I always face backwards when I take the train!!
     
  9. DoktorAtomik

    DoktorAtomik Closed For Business

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    There are too many things that have happened in my life that I'm unable to put down to just coincidence. You might not believe the same thing, but I wouldn't dismiss your view as 'ludicrous'.
     
  10. SaF

    SaF Hip Forums Supporter HipForums Supporter

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    My concept of Fate is that, while we still make our own decisions in life, and should be responsible for our actions, there are certain events that happen, or people we meet that are "meant to be". I agree with
    I believe that mistakes I have made in the past have all taught me something and helped me to be a better person, and lead me to where I'm supposed to be in life.
    I tend to go a lot with my instinct and gut feelings that I have, so far it's worked pretty well, but........

    I have had a pretty good / lucky life so far, maybe if it had been harder, I'd have a different view on Fate.... :confused:
     
  11. spacedreamer

    spacedreamer Member

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    No I don't live in the past. I can only see the past.
    Not sure where you're going with this pyramid thing. We are all, currently, where we are from events and from the choices that we have and other people have made in life. If that's what you're saying then, yes, we are all standing on pyramids and wherever we go the damn pyramid keeps following us.
    It won't leave us alone in fact.
    Again, I'm not sure what you mean by synchronicity. If it is the same as coincidences, then sure, I've seen plenty. I'm not dismissing it I just don't think they were preordained according to some cosmic architect. There are phenomenas in the universe whose chances of occurring are so mind-bogglingly remote that we seem convinced that they are special. For instance, Oxygen molecules can spontaneously turn into Gold atoms. But the chances of this happening are so fantastically remote that even scientists call this a "thermodynamic miracle". The chances of you and
    I happening to have stardust inside us are incredibly improbable, but we all do. Iron is formed from the debris of a dying sun. The very fact that you exist, as an indevidual person, given all the possible permutations of trillions of different
    sperm and eggs to create you, is mind-blowing. But it happens all the time. People are born into this world of countless improbabilites. Compared with all this, then winning the lottery would seem like a virtual certainty. The problem I have, is that people who observe chance events mistake them for "meaningful" moments of epiphany. That they
    now feel special. "Fate" has somehow revealed itself and then they start saying things like "well, it was meant to be" or "it was God's will". This is a dangerous way of thinking, just look at any religious fundamentalist. The problem with this
    world is that too few people really do take full responsibility for their actions. We may be viruses with shoes but how we interact with other viruses is still important to those viruses even if we don't think so. If Karma means be kind to others and good things will happen to you then I think that's quite a selfish attitude to take.
    What's wrong with just being kind to others full stop. We all have a short time on earth. It's a bloody miracle that any of are here in the first place.
     
  12. spacedreamer

    spacedreamer Member

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    I think we superimpose different philosophies, whether it be Eastern, Western or wherever onto
    our thinking as an animal. Animals in general have no morals just instinct. So does that mean we are different
    to all other animals because we have moral conflicts within ourselves? And if so does that mean we are special
    and so have a soul and kharma that determines how we will be reincarnated depending on our actions and moral judgements?
    Is this in any way quantifiable? Be good all your life and come back as a monk? Be bad all your life and come back as
    a cockroach or worse still, a tabloid journalist? Maybe I WANT to come back as a cockroach. It is only a matter
    of time before this world is destroyed in a major nuclear conflageration, then, maybe only cockroaches will survive
    and take over. In which case wouldn't life as a cockroach be better than no life at all?
    Do animals have souls? What has happened to the souls of all the dinosaurs? What if the dinosaurs hadn't been made
    exstinct? We certainly wouldn't be around today in that case. Was there some divine intervention that killed off
    all the dinosaurs just so that some hairless ape-like decendents could be given a chance to fuck the environment up
    and allow another species to flourish in our place? Possibly, but it seems unlikely.
    Science is far from perfect but it does unravel a lot of mysteries of the universe. As some questions are answered
    more spring up. The harder one looks as something the more one sees. We will never have the answers to everything.
    But I can't argue with your beliefs. It undermines reasoned arguement. Is it coincidence or fate that the middle word
    in believe is lie? I believe all beliefs are lies. It particularly riles me to hear our politicians, particularly Tony Blair
    start a sentence with "I honestly believe..." Here we are, living in a supposed western democracy, where proof and evidence
    are the tenets of our Justice System. However now we have God Squad in charge telling us not what they know to be irrefutable facts,
    but what they happen to believe in.
    The war in Iraq? Why could they not just be open about it? I'm not interested in what Tony "believes" is the right course
    of action or if we went to war just because Tony "believed" we might find some WMD. Concrete facts, solid evidence,
    real intent to attack us, real WMD. Apparently these sorts of things don't matter any more. Because Tony "believes" that
    what he was doing was right, we should trust him and believe in him in turn. Well, what a great precedent that has set. Pretty much
    gives him a free reign to do what he pleases from now on. We can go around attacking who we please just based on his beliefs.
    Great. Sounds like the Christian Crusades all over again.
    Thing is, if I believed I was a tomato I'd probably be taken to a padded cell. But if I believed that when I die, I will either
    burn on a scewer in a fiery pit or play the harp with a bunch of winged fellas on a cloud then this is seen to be perfectly normal.
     
  13. Jaz Delorean

    Jaz Delorean Senior Member

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    hang on, i've been thinking about this recently, during late night philosophical discussions... i think fate and destiny are very different, fate is where its all mapped out, and destiny is where you end up...
    i don't believe in fate, i believe that what i end up as is planned though. :p :D
     
  14. Maon

    Maon Member

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    explain more Jaz.. and what do you think of my concept?
     
  15. rainbow dew

    rainbow dew Member

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    i believe that what we do has reprocussions, it is impossible to conduct any act without it affecting something else-the cause and effect threory. i also believe that there are certain lessons which we are more guided towards learning at certain times. so i guess in some ways i believe in some sort of fate althoguh i know it as karma which i think is slightly different, or that might just be me. i don't believe that anything is predestined, written for us before we are born, but i do believe that every action we create in our lives leads us to creating our own fate, or destiny in the end....it accumulates if you know what i mean. sorry if someone already said this-never had time to read all the posts...:rolleyes:

    namaste
    x x x
     
  16. COBALT_Blue

    COBALT_Blue Member

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    Fate is when you call a roofer to mend your roof and he falls off and ends up in hospital for 3 months. We can all work towards trying to change or plan our destiny but fate is a little harder to control if not nigh impossible.

    NB: In fairness and with respect to roofers - use scaffolding!
     
  17. dibblydowcus

    dibblydowcus Member

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    kizmet baby yeah!!
     

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