Lesbians not taken seriously?

That was a terrible thing to leave out. My apologies.

 

This is to do with the subject of lesbians not being taken seriously, although it is something that happened to me, so maybe not interesting to lesbians in general!

I was at a party with my girlfriend. We live together and people at the party knew that we were in a serious relationship.

We're sitting down talking with this guy who definitely knew, and he started ignoring my girlfriend, and very obviously coming on to me. When I reminded him that my long-term girlfriend is sitting next to me and that we are very much in love, it was obvious that he thought that didn't mean anything. Or maybe that it just meant sex. Or pornographic material for men.

This angered us both considerably. Had my girlfriend been a man, this would have been less likely to have happened. It would have been a 'real' relationship, and the line would have been there. For some reason, because I am with a woman, I am still on the market like a bunch of carrots.

This situation has never happened again, as it hadn't beforehand, but the preconception is often there in a large variety of situations, and personally I find it very offensive.

 

Not to mention tons of lesbian 'media' ie. tv shows /movies are geared toward a straight-male audience.

 

We need lesbians in the Senate and congress in order to move things and change the perception.

 

Really? I think there is some porn that does. Except Cyberdyke - that's lesbian porn made for lesbians by lesbians. I don't think movies like Tipping the Velvet, Lost and Delirious, or TV shows like The L Word are geared towards men. I think The L Word sometimes made lesbians look rather flighty and unable to stay in a commited relationship. What lesbian movies or TV shows have you come across that you think are geared towards men?

 

Houston elected an openly lesbian mayor. So, that's one step closer!

 

see, i find the L word as not being made by lesbians. most of the characters are the stereotypical media format of 'beauty', including the one "butch" character. I have to admit there were a few moments of that show ( ftm transexual) that covered some good lesbian issues. although it was definitely not based on what lesbians are all about. also, as you mentioned 'unable to stay in a committed relationship' which puts a negative light on lesbians as not being monogymous. Tipping the Velvet, Lost and Delirious...not bad...the best one I have seen is If These Walls Could Talk 2. It was the best depiction of 'real lesbians'. I find that it is the porn industry mostly, it centers around lesbians as being a byproduct of male fantasy. Also, "bi-bar girls" who make out to turn men on...definitely dont help "lesbians being taken seriously".

There are tons of teen movies and other tv shows that portray lesbians as solely there for a male audience. American pie, family guy, tons of HBO shows...the list could go on. I'm talking more mainstream media, there are some great obscure films and shows that are 'made by lesbians for lesbians'.

 

Okay, I see what you mean. I think shows like The L Word and "bi-bar girls" keep reinforcing the idea that two women in a relationship couldn't possibly be serious. Of course, I think there are women like that out there - women that are just "playing" around because they got sick of men for a minute. I wonder if the same thing exists in lesbians? Lesbians just "playing around" with men because they got sick of women for a minute?

 

I try to imagine that doesnt exist. *puts on rose-coloured glasses* *weeps*...lol. But honestly, where has self-respect gone?

 

As someone mentioned earlier, I think this is mostly to do with the fact that male homosexuality is generally more vilified and stigmatized by society. Much more attention appears to be given to gay males because more drama surrounds it as there is more of a social stigma towards male homosexuality than the female equivelant. There are some people who think female homosexuality is fine, but at the same time, think male homosexuality is unnatural and wrong.

That does sound very discriminatory to me, but I have no idea why that would be the case.

Again, I think the reason for this is related to my answer to your first two points. Any media depicting gay men will get more attention than media depicting gay women, because there is a greater stigma attatched to male homosexuality. So it's seen as a ''bigger deal'' by most media than anything to do with lesbians. Male homosexuality does seem to get more attention than lesbianism, but most of that attention is negative. Thats the thing you have to remember. In general, I think gay men have a far worse time of it than gay women, when it comes to societal pressures and stigma.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with your conclusions there. Lesbians are generally seen in a much more positive light than gay men, therefore anything to do with male homosexuality will have much more attention (negative) drawn to it. Research into a biological cause for homosexuality is probably focussed much more on men than women, because male homosexuality is seen as ''wrong'' and/or an illness. Female homosexuality generally doesnt carry that same stigma. The things that lesbians are ''left out of'' they should be glad of that I think. If I was a lesbian, I definitely wouldnt want all of the negative connotations associated with male homosexuality being attatched to my sexual orientation.

Female homosexuality probably isnt taken so ''seriously'', because its like most almost expect women's sexuality to be more fluid than men's. I guess the best way to put it, is even for lots of people who demonize male homosexuals, their attitude towards lesbians is either indifferent, or positive. Thats my take on it all anyways.

 

Just something to think about, but could it not be taken as seriously because women aren't perceived as having a sexuality? What I mean is this: Women are typically not seen as sexual creatures; they're not supposed to seek out sex, or are only supposed to engage in it as "owing" it to someone.

I wouldn't be surprised if some men see lesbianism as positive in order to benefit themselves: the coveted three-some, as it were. They don't understand the difference between lesbians (women who would never think of adding a man into the bedroom), and bisexual women (women who might invite a man in). They see both as the same thing, which is why you get guys thinking that just because you have a girlfriend, he might still have a chance.

 

I think that definitely does have a lot to do with it. For example, I've heard the word ''pervert'' a lot in reference to men. And is used a lot in particular, when describing male homosexuals. It is extremely rare to hear that word used in conjunction with women.

The key thing you have to remember there, is that a lot of straight women "get it on" with women merely to turn men on. They are not actually bi at all. I remember not that long ago talking to some guy on here who seemed to think that all straight women were ''turned on'' by the idea of two women being togther. When I pointed out that if women were turned on by that they couldn't be straight, he just laughed and said that's just the way that women are. When I pointed out that if a ''straight'' guy was turned on by two men being together he'd probably see him as gay, he said it was ''different for women''. I thought his attitude was completely delusional and ridiculous. But I do think a lot of men believe that women either dont have a sexuality, or that their sexuality is naturally a lot more fluid than men's. But the ''fact'' that all women are bisexual, is just a complete male fantasy, and is not grounded in truth at all.

 

I think that lesbians may not be taken as seriously because of the stigma placed around males. What I mean is that because male homosexuality is normally seen as immoral, perverse and grotesque, it is therefore exaggerated. 1) The community feels prompted to expose such an "immoral act" and 2) the gay community (not to feed the stereotype) feeds off of such attention, and even dramatizes it to further propel movements and to say "look at what society does", therefore creating a stronger gay rights' movement. I hope that makes sense: when more oppression occurs people have a natural propensity and compulsion to fight it, and therefore the gay rights' movement as a whole is strengthened.
I also am unsure whether it is more detrimental that homosexual women are not taken seriously or for us to have/be associated with the same sort of stigma that gay men experience. In my opinion, the reason a lot of gay rights' policies havent come about is because of the disgrace and stigma that surrounds gays- people often label gays as having HIV, being perverts and a plethora of other social afflictions. But people are slightly more inclined to see a lesbian couple and disregard them because we arent a staunch threat to traditional Western views. I dont know others opinion on the issue, but I strongly prefer to be able to go to a public place with my partner and not have gasps, glares, and harmfully intended ridicule whispered under the breath of strangers as we stroll by hand-in-hand. While sometimes this does occur, I like to keep such incidents to a minimum. If I truly wanted to feel the brunt of society in that way, I would make bold displays of affection or start randomly screaming about gay rights the moment that I notice anyone giving us a side ways glance.
So, yes, lesbians are probabley not taken quite as seriously as, let's say, gay men - I dont necessarily view that as a bad thing.

**I use "gay" in reference to the male homosexual community

 

yeah u hit it right there