Soul Proof: Is There A Hell? Part 2

Asking you to go a little deeper here and consider that the real economy of equal measure when considering questions of riches and poverty.

You will have your own NDE, followed by your own death experience.

 

The richness of spirit of these people must have been many

I don't mind dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens - Woody Allen

 

LOL

We'll just have to agree to disagree on who wrote the bible since neither of us have any more proof than the other. And I highly doubt history has proven anything in the bible to be Truth but we can agree to disagree on that too.

Far as NDEs go, as I said in response to the first response here, people will always doubt what they don't understand especially when they discredit it without even trying to. Not saying you're doubting it, but the people you were speaking for. I apologize for accusing you of being one of those people, I was just able to tell your words were sentiments of people who did doubt them. I don't understand why people question some things that have no physical proof that they're aware of but not all things that have no physical proof they're aware of, which is another point I already made in this thread.

There is absolutely no way to prove a NDE is real until you have one yourself. I'm willing to accept that but that same exact logic applies to everything the bible says about death as well.

 

What of the poor in spirit?

Stay awake, don't go back to sleep, . . don't go back to sleep.

 

Sure, seems fine with me. I just wanna clear up that I didn't mean the supernatural events, mainly places and people that were said to not exist but later understood to exist with further excavation. Believing in the supernatural events is an article of faith, just sayin'

I get that a lot myself so I understand. Many would talk down ideas outright without giving it a chance. Actually, the most scientifically dishonest thing to do is dismiss possibilities.

I would like to apologize too. Reading back at what I said, it does seem a bit stern and leave a narrow door on possibilities, but I honestly do respect what these people have to say, there are just times when I am unsure... As a person that believes that our entire existence is material I may not believe in an immaterial soul but I do leave it open since we really don't know whats going on within 'material' existence; Material existence is so complicated and paradoxical that it really leaves so much possibilities and the idea of material and immaterial seems mostly like splitting of hairs to me.

Can you give a further example of this? Sounds interesting and not entirely sure how to respond to this tbh.

Well, the Bible says that when people die they have no experiences because it brings them into nonexistence since all of our existence is built by matter, but I can be wrong concerning that interpretation.

Can't NDE be proven real though? I mean, if they say they saw and heard things that were varified by doctors we can saw they left their bodies and noticed these things, but we can also say that there is an alternative. I dunno.

 

Many wells will be filled

But I'm tired

We will stay awake in spirit

 

Yep

Are you still chaffing because about 6 months ago I told you all your cursing made you sound illiterate?

I never said that NDEs don't exists, our disagreement is in what they mean.

You do like to just ramble on but it would be nice if you occasionally addressed the points put to you.

The point was that you said that the Bible was a book of imaginary characters that has no proof and then when one of these NDEs involves a blind person "seeing" Jesus, one of those "imaginary characters" from the Bible, suddenly it proves that what is being seen in NDEs is the "other side". Doesn't that seem a little self serving to you?

 

People seeing biblical characters have nothing to do with anything. If people viewed certain faiths and/or people to be affiliated with The Divine, there is a good chance they will see things they already identified with God to let them know they are having a divine experience.

There was also one about a Jewish man who said he saw symbols and figures of all religions from Jesus to Muhammad to the Buddha and then asked God which religion did God want him to follow and God replied "it doesn't matter." And this was the experience of a man who had been Jewish his whole life.

But what does that have to do with anything? The fact biblical stories haven't been proven doesn't discredit the account of someone who says they seen biblical figures during near death experiences. I'm sure if you have one you'll see Jesus and if I do I won't. How would someone even know when they saw Jesus when there are like 1000 different portraits of him anyway?

Not even saying I'm an expert on this and my answer could be wrong. But it isn't far fetched to say characters who show up during a Divine experience will likely correlate with characters that person already associated with The Divine.

 

So now NDEs are "Divine experiences"? And your proof is?

 

If you were privy to a divine experience what would your proof be? Divine experiences occur in the presence of the Divine.

 

Well technically every experience is a divine experience, but ones that don't involve the physical body are more "real" for lack of a better word. At least according to many spiritual teachers.

But as Thedope asked, what exactly would you consider to be valid proof?

There's absolutely nothing I can type here that you will agree with unless it came out the bible or was in agreement with it, so what exactly would you consider as "proof"?

 

You may have me on this one, there may not be any easy way to prove NDEs to be divine experiences, although I would listen to what you have to say on the subject.

The problem is that to prove NDEs are divine experiences, I would expect similar proof to that of the proof that the Bible is the word of God.

Perhaps if the experiences had been around for thousands of years and over that period of time NDEs had produced accurate prophecies hundreds of years in advance of their fulfillment. Perhaps if they also told us why the condition of mankind is like it is and to get the most out of life. etc.