Bible Questions?

Seems like you have more than just one question.

For a census.

Do you expect the accounts to be exactly the same, word for word? The accounts do not conflict, Matthew does not say that there was no census and Luke does not say that the “baby killing by Herod” did not occur. Each Gospel account contains the information that the writer, under inspiration, considered germane to the discussion at hand and if all four Gospels are taken into consideration together, they make an almost 3D like description of what happened is obtained.

I can’t speak for the whole Roman empire but as for the Jews, meticulous ancestral records were kept up until the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE and that is also why Matthew and Luke could both trace Jesus linage back to Adam, something that could not be done today for the Messiah, if Jesus was not the Messiah.

The Bible tells of both and that would be a record.

There were two registrations under Quirinius. Bible critics have said that the only census taken while Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was governor of Syria was about 6 C.E., which event sparked a rebellion by Judas the Galilean and the Zealots. (Ac 5:37) This was really the second registration under Quirinius, for inscriptions discovered at and near Antioch revealed that some years earlier Quirinius had served as the emperor’s legate in Syria. (The Bearing of Recent Discovery on the Trustworthiness of the New Testament, by W. Ramsay, 1979, pp. 285, 291) Concerning this, the Dictionnaire du Nouveau Testament in Crampon’s French Bible (1939 ed., p. 360) says: “The scholarly researches of Zumpt (Commentat. epigraph., II, 86-104; De Syria romana provincia, 97-98) and of Mommsen (Res gestae divi Augusti) place beyond doubt that Quirinius was twice governor of Syria.” Many scholars locate the time of Quirinius’ first governorship as somewhere between the years 4 and 1 B.C.E., probably from 3 to 2 B.C.E. Their method of arriving at these dates, however, is not solid, and the actual period of this governorship remains indefinite. His second governorship, however, included 6 C.E., according to details reported by Josephus.—Jewish Antiquities, XVIII, 26 (ii, 1).

So historian and Bible writer Luke was correct when he said concerning the registration at the time of Jesus’ birth: “This first registration took place when Quirinius was governor of Syria,” distinguishing it from the second, which occurred later under the same Quirinius and to which Gamaliel makes reference as reported by Luke at Acts 5:37.

Here is more information about QUIRINIUS if you like.

Roman governor of Syria at the time of the “registration” ordered by Caesar Augustus that resulted in Jesus’ birth taking place in Bethlehem. (Lu 2:1, 2) His full name was Publius Sulpicius Quirinius.

In the Chronographus Anni CCCLIIII, a list of Roman consuls, the name of Quirinius appears in 12 B.C.E. along with that of Messala. (Chronica Minora, edited by T. Mommsen, Munich, 1981, Vol. I, p. 56) Roman historian Tacitus briefly recounts Quirinius’ history, saying: “[He] sprang from the municipality of Lanuvium—had no connection; but as an intrepid soldier and an active servant he won a consulate under the deified Augustus, and, a little later, by capturing the Homonadensian strongholds beyond the Cilician frontier, earned the insignia of triumph . . . , adviser to Gaius Caesar during his command in Armenia.” (The Annals, III, XLVIII) His death took place in 21 C.E.

Not mentioned by Tacitus is Quirinius’ relationship to Syria. Jewish historian Josephus relates Quirinius’ assignment to Syria as governor in connection with the simultaneous assignment of Coponius as the Roman ruler of Judea. He states: “Quirinius, a Roman senator who had proceeded through all the magistracies to the consulship and a man who was extremely distinguished in other respects, arrived in Syria, dispatched by Caesar to be governor of the nation and to make an assessment of their property. Coponius, a man of equestrian rank, was sent along with him to rule over the Jews with full authority.” Josephus goes on to relate that Quirinius came into Judea, to which his authority was extended, and ordered a taxation there. This brought much resentment and an unsuccessful attempt at revolt, led by “Judas, a Gaulanite.” (Jewish Antiquities, XVIII, 1, 2, 3, 4 [i, 1]) This is evidently the revolt referred to by Luke at Acts 5:37. According to Josephus’ account it took place in “the thirty-seventh year after Caesar’s defeat of Antony at Actium.” (Jewish Antiquities, XVIII, 26 [ii, 1]) That would indicate that Quirinius was governor of Syria in 6 C.E.

For a long time this was the only governorship of Syria by Quirinius for which secular history supplied confirmation. However, in the year 1764 an inscription known as the Lapis Tiburtinus was found in Rome, which, though not giving the name, contains information that most scholars acknowledge could apply only to Quirinius. (Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum, edited by H. Dessau, Berlin, 1887, Vol. 14, p. 397, No. 3613) It contains the statement that on going to Syria he became governor (or, legate) for ‘the second time.’ On the basis of inscriptions found in Antioch containing Quirinius’ name, many historians acknowledge that Quirinius was also governor of Syria in the B.C.E. period.

There is uncertainty on their part, however, as to where Quirinius fits among the secularly recorded governors of Syria. Josephus lists Quintilius Varus as governor of Syria at the time of, and subsequent to, the death of Herod the Great. (Jewish Antiquities, XVII, 89 [v, 2]; XVII, 221 [ix, 3]) Tacitus also refers to Varus as being governor at the time of Herod’s death. (The Histories, V, IX) Josephus states that Varus’ predecessor was Saturninus (C. Sentius Saturninus).

Many scholars, in view of the evidence of an earlier governorship by Quirinius, suggest the years 3-2 B.C.E. for his governorship. While these dates would harmonize satisfactorily with the Biblical record, the basis on which these scholars select them is in error. That is, they list Quirinius as governor during those years because they place his rule after that of Varus and hence after the death of Herod the Great, for which they use the popular but erroneous date of 4 B.C.E. (For the same reason, that is, their use of the unproved date 4 B.C.E. for Herod’s death, they give Varus’ governorship as from 6 to 4 B.C.E.; the length of his rule, however, is conjectural, for Josephus does not specify the date of its beginning or of its end.) The best evidence points to 2 B.C.E. for the birth of Jesus. Hence Quirinius’ governorship must have included this year or part thereof.

Some scholars call attention to the fact that the term used by Luke, and usually translated “governor,” is he·ge·mon′. This Greek term is used to describe Roman legates, procurators, and proconsuls, and it means, basically, a “leader” or “high executive officer.” Some, therefore, suggest that, at the time of what Luke refers to as the “first registration,” Quirinius served in Syria in the capacity of a special legate of the emperor exercising extraordinary powers. A factor that may also aid in understanding the matter is Josephus’ clear reference to a dual rulership of Syria, since in his account he speaks of two persons, Saturninus and Volumnius, serving simultaneously as “governors of Syria.” (Jewish Antiquities, XVI, 277, 280 [ix, 1]; XVI, 344 [x, 8]) Thus, if Josephus is correct in his listing of Saturninus and Varus as successive presidents of Syria, it is possible that Quirinius served simultaneously either with Saturninus (as Volumnius had done) or with Varus prior to Herod’s death (which likely occurred in 1 B.C.E.). The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge presents this view: “Quirinius stood in exactly the same relation to Varus, the governor of Syria, as at a later time Vespasian did to Mucianus. Vespasian conducted the war in Palestine while Mucianus was governor of Syria; and Vespasian was legatus Augusti, holding precisely the same title and technical rank as Mucianus.”—1957, Vol. IX, pp. 375, 376.

An inscription found in Venice (Lapis Venetus) refers to a census conducted by Quirinius in Syria. However, it provides no means for determining whether this was in his earlier or his later governorship.—Corpus Inscriptionum Latinarum, edited by T. Mommsen, O. Hirschfeld, and A. Domaszewski, 1902, Vol. 3, p. 1222, No. 6687.

Luke’s proved accuracy in historical matters gives sound reason for accepting as factual his reference to Quirinius as governor of Syria around the time of Jesus’ birth. It may be remembered that Josephus, virtually the only other source of information, was not born until 37 C.E., hence nearly four decades after Jesus’ birth. Luke, on the other hand, was already a physician traveling with the apostle Paul by about 49 C.E. when Josephus was but a boy of 12. Of the two, Luke, even on ordinary grounds, is the more likely source for reliable information on the matter of the Syrian governorship just prior to Jesus’ birth. Justin Martyr, a Palestinian of the second century C.E., cited the Roman records as proof of Luke’s accuracy as regards Quirinius’ governorship at the time of Jesus’ birth. (A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, edited by B. Orchard, 1953, p. 943) There is no evidence that Luke’s account was ever challenged by early historians, even by early critics such as Celsus.

 

Thanks but I was just trying to answer within the parameters that you set.

As for the rest just read the posts in this thread:
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=371369&page=6
I believe that what is stated there is proof that the Bible is the word of God that other religions can’t not truthful say about their holy books.

Actually it seems that you are the one seeing it in an “odd light” there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that the Soul is immortal or that it can’t just be “blipping out of existence”. If you’ll notice Satan is the one saying you will not die

Also please note you are in the Sanctuary forum and a thread called Bible Questions and so the use of Scriptures here is perfectly legitimate.

As for playing “the game of pointing out all the verses that condone slavery, incest, murder, treating women terribly, etc.” go ahead but if you first actually read this thread and the one before it, you will see that most of those questions have already been asked and answered.

 

Are you calling the hand of God short? Do you really believe that God's hand can't reach your hypothetical island? When in reality God's word has already reached that island.

To assert that there is no "only Way to Truth" is to believe the lie that got mankind into the mess that he finds himself in.

 

So, you answered my "hey, answer this question without using the Bible" challenge by linking me to a thread where you expound on why the Bible is the reason your faith is the right one? Intriguing choice.

There isn't anything saying the soul is a finite thing that can die, either. So I suppose we're stalemated there - beyond the logic that Jesus doesn't seem like the type of guy to let anyone blip out of existence, even if they happened to follow Shinto or Buddhism or some such thing.

Yes, I'm aware of the forum we're in - and aware of you once more refusing my challenge. Whether you are unwilling or unable I can't say, but I suppose either way I shouldn't waste my time.


If any of those questions were answered as poorly as you've answered my very simply request; I certainly hope the readers of the thread know well enough to do research elsewhere. You're obviously a very intelligent man, but incapable of looking at matters from any point of view but your own. I'm not sure I would preach love and mercy via pride and arrogance.

 

You basically rephrased the question I am still asking you, so let me know when you're ready to answer. I didn't call it anything, I asked what your take was.

Five paths can lead us to the same destination.

 

Thanks

As I pointed out, Ezekiel 18:4 says straight out . . .The soul that is sinning—it itself will die. It can't get much plainer than that.

I've answered your "challenge" a number of ways, seeing as you don't seem to want to listen perhaps you are just wasting your time.

I have many times said that no one should take my word for it and should look it up for themselves but then it seems you haven't bothered to read many of the posts here anyway.

But you seem to do it so well.

 

No, you answered my question in the specific way I challenged you to avoid, we've shown that the Ezekiel verse is open to interpretation, and I'm not the one pretending to tell people I know what's best for their immortal souls.
So long, I'm sure we'll meet up in another thread and it'll be equally saddening and hilarious.

 

Why don't people listen?

Okay, I'll spell it out for you.
You are talking about God like he is incapable of reaching each and every person on this planet with the truth. Where is your hypothetical island that God can't reach it? In truth there is no such place that you describe. And since no such place can exist then people condemn themselves for not listening and excepting the truth when it reaches them.

True if you are talking about getting to Rome but if you are talking about getting to God there is only one.

 

I have been listening to you word for word, hence why I am aware that you are still yet to answer my question.

How do you come up with that, when all I have been asking you, is if you think people who are unaware of Christianity and the Bible are lacking in blessing, fullness of life, and knowledge? Forget the island if it demonstrates what I am asking you more clearly.

Though, in truth there are many third world countries, that know nothing of our ways, our society, our machines, our habits and daily routines. We intrude upon their land with our camera's and our questions; we are complete strangers to them, and yet they are complete strangers to us. Who is to say which path is right? Who is to say that there is only "one way"?

Now please share what you think this one way is.

 

'

Actually, no I answered in exactly the form you asked, you just didn't like the answer.

No "we" haven't, you came up with some mumbo jumbo that isn't even vaguely supported by the scripture let alone the Bible and now you say that means the verse is open to interpretation, please.

Well first, I don't believe people have immortal souls, so I can't very well be the one telling people what's best for them, can I? And second, all I have is said what I believe the Bible says and that people can look it up for themselves, not that I know what is best for them.

Too bad you find the truth to be "saddening".

 

Once again, who are these people? God can reach everyone. So I don't think anyone is "unaware of Christianity and the Bible". And even if there are, they won't be for long because God will see to it that they have the opportunity to hear the truth.

As for being lacking in blessing, fullness of life, and knowledge, yes, anyone not living by Bible principles is lacking in blessing, fullness of life, and knowledge.

No one needs to learn "our ways" to learn the truth. If anything we need to learn their "ways" so we can more easily bring them the truth.

God.

As I've said before the one way is with those who most closely follow what the Bible says.

 

No, up to this point you say, "the Bible says" period.

 

as an absolutist, I will.

That is to say, there are many paths you can live, but only one is "God's path". i am not even entirely on that path. I am in a state of mortal sin right now for missing my Sunday obligation.

 

You are correct but I'm willing to believe that there may be some things that I don't understand completely and that is why from time to time I will say, as I have above, that you should never take anyone's word for it, not even mine but should study the Bible for yourself. But when studying the Bible for yourself, to understand what it is saying, you should start from the idea that it is not contradictory and if you let it, it will interpret itself.

 

My understanding has never been static, while not fundamentally changing, has gotten deeper, richer, informed from all sides by the experiences of life. I am glad to hear you still find room for greater understanding.

 

That's not what he told me

 

Do you hear other voices, or only God's?

 

Of course I hear other voices... what else would I do... smell them?

 

In accordance with the theory that a god created everything (aside from himself?) and everything that will ever be found or discovered is but a fleeting glimpse of it's Majesty, why do anything other than read the bible and multiply?

Why look for cures for disease's that god created?

Why explore the Cosmo's if nothing will be found in it that will do anything but pale in comparison with this supposed deity?

Why bother learning anything outside of the theological?

 

I don't see how believing in God changes the desire to cure diseases (he didn't create), explore the universe and learn things outside the Bible. In fact it's encourged in the Bible to "ask, seek and knock" etc.