Are women biologically programmed to reward cruelty, evil and domination?

Oh, I certainly agree with you. Female supremacy seems as unwholesome as male to me. Though I can understand the urge for a radical separatist ideal, I don't agree with it. Much like I can understand, to a degree, enamdar's distress.

I can better understand, though still don't support, the idea of a -temporary- separatist ideology. The idea being that men have had a few thousand years to define what a male run society looks like, and to define masculinity, and we've totally lost in the process what femininity looks like when not strictly defined by men. A couple generations of females living in a separatist or female dominant circumstance might be capable of creating something of that.

Not that it's feasible, nor that I think it would necessarily work out even if it could be done. But the idea remains interesting, at least as a thought experiment.

 

i have read the first 5 pages into this 10 page post.
i see the pattern here.
i have only one thing to say.
people, please, don't feed the troll!:troll:

 

enamdar, are you able to email me by that vcard thing?

 

Shrug, perhaps he is. But maybe we'll help another that has a similar issue. And if he's not, if he really has this distress... Maybe it will help him.

Or perhaps not. In which case, I've wasted nothing but time, and actually given myself a pretty positive reminder of my own convictions.

 

What is the difference between the "herd" that is Darwinianly programmed to enjoy sex and power, and a "existential nihilist" master who coincidently desires and pursues the exact same things the herd wants anyway?

Humanity is already designed to grab life by its balls. To the extent that they don't consciously embrace pure evopsych, is because hypocrisy provides pleasures of its own. So if everyone else is already doing that, I don't see how one somehow becomes above the herd, by doing exactly what the herd is doing. If the "herd" does delude itself it is only because illusions confer a competitive advantage over facing the cold hard truth. If one is to play the game of life, a few illusions can only help. They evolved for a reason. BF Skinner bragged that he had trained pigeons to be superstitious and knock on wood through his conditioning. But the pigeon's superstition that he would get food when he knocked on wood, was far more rational and scientific than the superstitions that man makes up for himself. Man is the most deluded of animals. Animals are scientific materialists although they make empirical errors when they see a twig blowing in the wind and think it is alive. But only man will make gods out of the twigs, wind, and thunder. Man is more "wrong" than the squirrel who flinches at the thunder, and yet man's errors are evolved to serve him well.

So the nihilist answer is just the human answer. Man's drive to dominate is so powerful that he will accept 1000 people dominating him so long as he has 1 below him that he can unleash his sadism.

I guess I just need to accept there is just such a wide gulf between me and humanity, and that there is no hope for dialogue.

 

.

 

Soo if im right, if the herd got on the roof and jumped off, your gonna follow them ????

 

Lol. So speaks a hypocritical and deluded human. I offer you only a chance at pleasure. It may be delusional, but so are your own ideas, and by the same token. All notions you hold are equally delusional, all beliefs are mere convenience.

Why the need to 'rise above the herd'? Why do you insist that you must be so much better then everyone else? You are not, you know. Where you sit now, you are in many ways more of what you despise then the average herd beast. At least as deluded, and more hypocritical. Notably more self-centered, petty and greedy. The thing that you despise, the common herd beast, the rot that is festering in society's boot. You Are That. But you are other then that too.

You imagine yourself better then us, yet sink into the very depravity you despise with every breath. You are pathetic, and worth no more of my time.

 

Final word: seek therapy. Untreated bi-polar disorder is a terrible thing.

 

I am not trying to rise above the herd. I was referring to the foolish idea that certain "nihilists" have that, they realize life is meaningless and that makes them enjoy life more. In fact the herd with its delusions are better equipped for life than those aspiring Nietzsches.

As for me I let the majority define my reality. Is it really the majority or simply what the elite defines for the majority? It makes no difference. What matters is what the majority believes not what causes the belief.

Am I better than humanity? Only morally. Yes, yes how arrogant of me. Morality is subjective and meaningless. There is no such thing as good and evil. Well I guess so. So from my abstract morality I am better than humanity, though that better is worthless. And that better means I'm fundamentally unfit to exist. Is that arrogance? To admit that I am fundamentally unqualified to play the game of life?

Am I better than everyone else? In the one way that is meaningful to me, but it is meaningless in a Darwinian world.

Well there are some great men from history. A few good few stil alive today. But there numbers are so dwindling, hope so bleek that it is pointless. There are countless, well maybe not countless, but loads of heroes greater than me from history. There certainly are a few even today. I'm not better than them Just more pessimistic realistic. I don't want to be right. I hope that I am the fool, and they are the realists. But from my perspective, all good is doomed. That doesn't make me better. It makes me more accurate. I wish not accurate. But anyway good is so whipped in the world, that why bother with a few malcontent statistical anomalies? Good is thoroughly broken and defeated.

For me if your course of action are basically the same as any other evopsych dirven creature, but you have the ability to laugh in your head "heh,heh, this is all no big deal, its stupid, I'm above all these foolish muggles". That to me is worth nothing. Even in its Stoic higher form of believing the body is in chains, but the mind is free. I mean I understand that position. But I've come to assign a low value to mental states next to material reality. For you the ability to know that you are fundamentally different from others doing the exact same thing changes your circumstances. I disagree but its a legitimate position.

You believe that which is closer to nature is on a fundamental level more "real" than human constructions. I consider human constructions "higher" and just as "real" precisely because they are conscious as opposed to unconscious matter. I value the spiritual over the material, if the spiritual is understood to be nothing more than the output of highly organized matter.

You see life as a game that you take less seriously than the other players. Well if one takes that too an extreme one becomes nothing but a slacker. Or me, doing nothing at all. So even that has to be moderated. But even a moderate cynicism is only a partial advantage. Those who take life deadly seriously and believe that God or saving the world is in their hands, can often play the game of life far better. To go back to your game metaphor. Sure sometimes taking a game too seriously makes one choke. But often its the fellow in the cold sweat and intensity who wins it. Now you can try and fake it for self-interest, but I think the whole point is it can't be faked. Or at least not consciously and deliberately. Hypocrisy has its merits, but I don't think most hypocrites coldly calculate it. So I guess there is a trade-off between slave and master morality. There are advantages and defects to both. But most masters, find it best to cloak themselves in slave morality, and to cloak yourself best, you got to believe it a little. But then again, I don't really know. I mean I look around 2010 USA and I say that just about everyone follows your "Existential nihilist" philosophy. Their just as cynical as you, but they don't think its a big deal.

But at the most basic level sex and power appeal to you. I don't really have any strong desire for either. I would have to convince myself, well listen son, you live in 2010 USA, and in America everything comes down to sexual prowess. Thus your concrete as opposed to abstract duty is to pursue sexual conquests. But if you have to be dragged into pleasure kicking and screaming. Your probably not going to enjoy it.

But I mean how does the typical individual think? "I'd like to be a good person, but its a dog eat dog world and I need to get by." And EVERYONE thinks they are a special, unique, snowflake with a great destiny.

Its really ironic. I mean I'm more on the side of conformist democracy yet I am behaving like an individual. And your more on the side of individualism yet you've decided to embrace the historical age. I guess I should be doing what your doing, and you ought to be doing what I'm doing. If we really believed what we said, we'd be on opposite courses.

Well you claim your also depressed by the human condition. So you must realize that being "immoral" will give you no special advantages, no one plays by the rules anyway.

But then isn't that the problem of the whole "tragic sense of life" that comes out of Pinker, Sowell and Tucker Max? The solution to life being tragic is to heap yet more tragedies upon the suffering world.

If everything comes down to the level of success in the world, one would be hard-pressed to name any successful nihilists. ideology is powerful stuff and its power comes precisely from NOT " recognize and admit that there is no ultimate truth behind it and all it offers is a potential social or emotional advantage."

IDK, I've completely withdrawn from humanity for a while now. Grown too detached. So perhaps I am judging all this as too much of an outsider at this point. The most basic human drives have to be explained to me now. I don't even understand why humans want to survive and mate. So if I don't even get that, I guess theres no point of bothering with the rest.

So yeah I'm aint the point where I would ask humanity "well, why do you like sex? why do you like living better than dying?" Maybe humanity can't answer those questions and maybe its not their fault they can't. Maybe its my fault for even having to ask something so basic.

I suppose the choice is to accept what life is and the supposed good things it has to offer. And thats what everyone does. I don't like the good things life has to offer. They come at too high a price. And I guess I'm going to be weeded out of existence for it. I guess that answers my question. Why doesn't anyone else in the world think like me? Because the human mind is shaped to enjoy this world not reject it. Thus anyone who did feel like me would have their genes weeded out of existence. I'm a mutation and a very maladaptive one. And I guess I'll be weeded out just like the tiny few who may have come before me and may come after.

I guess what I really want to know is there any way I can make peace with the world?

I don't want to accept that the answer is no. But I guess it is. I mean I am the opposite of this world. My genes are completely unfit to survive. I'm going to be weeded out and theres no escaping that. I'm what the Nazis would call life unworthy of life.

 

I cannot fathom why you believe you are morally superior to anyone. You are sponging off your parents and are ungrateful for their support. It would seem that you have never taken adult responsibility for yourself and lament that the world has not rendered unto you something to validate your life or a reason for living. No wonder a woman will have nothing to do with you. We don't tend to be attracted to men who assume that we are "programmed to reward cruelty, evil and domination".

As someone else said in this thread, you are here complaining from the cushy existence your parents are providing, including internet access. You have nothing in the way of woe to complain about from such a position.

I agree with Autumnsummer. Get out of your parents home. Take responsibility for your own survival. Eek out your living on the edge. You will find no reason for survival as long as your basic needs are being met. It is a coward who complains about the human condition, while he hides from humanity.

 

I think my abstract morality is superior to the lives humans actually live. I admit that in a world that rewards evil, such morality is worse than useless and can only lead to my doom.

So what you saying is once I'm too busy trying to survive, I'll forget that theres no reason to survive. Point taken. And maybe that answers my question. Maybe slaves and serfs are too busy farming to realize their lives are worse than death.

My parents are basically providing me with welfare. They have no reason to. I have no power over them. They just don't want to see their genetic investment go down the tubes. They are more willing to work for my life, than I am. They are more biological than me. Is it wrong of me to use them? Considering that they forced me to be born, a year of leeching is the LEAST they could provide me. If they had just aborted me, they wouldn't have had to spend a cent on me.

Look I've been away from humanity nearly a year now. Talking to no one but abstract metaphysics. I look at humanity completely as an outsider and objectively. The picture isn't pretty.

As for girls. Well I never really tried. This isn't personal. If girls reward evil that hits me much harder than just poor me not getting a date. Girls used to chase me before college. The me you see before you, is very different from pre-college me. A whole different character. In JRHS and HS. I played football and other HS sports. I was nominated for homecoming king. Girls used to literally chase me. They found me very funny. I never asked them out or anything because it was against my ideal of the noble man. Hes suppose to be above things like that. Also I wasn't sure if they really liked me, or were just joking around. I don't have much to complain about girls in JRHS or HS. They were very nice to me, nicer than I deserved. And even if they were just pretending to like me, they don't do that to everyone. And I value humor and comedy, and believe it is good that they were pretending to like me in order to be comical. Since I thought they were just joking, I was very rude to any girl who said she liked me.

 

Superior and useless are not the same thing. Your statement is self contradictory and does not function as meaningful communication.
Could you describe some of the "superior" features of your morality.

 

You are merely repeating yourself without substantiation.

As to your last paragraph, you remind me very much of a misogynist I came across a week ago on another forum. He thought it weak for a man to love a woman. Interesting to meet up with another so quickly.

 

Everything you say is full of too many double standards to point out. You and people like you are exactly the problem that you're bitching about.

We all make mistakes in junior high relationships, get the fuck over yourself and stop living in your own deluded past/parents basement.

Frankly, this kids parents need to turn his ass out, his apathetic ass will starve on the curb in front of their house for a while, but in the words of kurt cobain, "it amazes me, the will of instinct". Either his instinct will leave the failure that his conscious mind is no choice but to get his ass in gear, which will in turn improve his outlook, or else he will die, and I won't be the least bit sorry, that's just how it goes...

 

Well that's what most junior high age males think, or at least say they think. I know I acted quite apart from how I felt for many years, and still really do, because of self consciousness. But in his case, it seems to have combined with other things to royally fuck him into worthlessness.

Nothing against you, OP, or at least nothing that can't be fixed. And I expect it will be fixed when the scenario I described in my last post takes effect. But for the time being, you're pretty frustraiting

*edit* OP, aside from being kicked out, your whole predicament might quite possibly be soved by a dime sack and a copy of the grateful deads "american beauty". If you have a wave of caring that lasts long enough, you might try that route....

 

Well I advocate the exact opposite position. Although in this insane world love is impossible. Although what exactly is love? Love that is tied to sex is just eros. Certainly there is much to be said about Platonic Love. Although Platonic love is much more powerful than its current watery meaning of friends who don't have sex. It means so much more than that. Plato says you can see the seed of that higher love even in vulgar sexual eros. To be honest I don't see it. But maybe in the imaginary erotic love that poetry is written about, the seed can be seen. But honestly in the world that actually exists I can only see cruelty, sadism and domination in anything the least bit sexual.

What did you find misogynistic about my last paragraph? Well yes it is true that in my younger days I did consider romantic distractions a sign of weak character. The man entirely immune from the charms of women, was my ideal man. I regarded girls as temptresses to be resisted and virgins to be protected. And I took pleasure from the fact that at least in public, it looked like a lot of girls liked me, and yet I was entirely unmoved by that. That good looking, popular girls were saying they liked me, and I was completely above that. How real was it? Not sure. But at the time I considered it a great demonstration of my nobility of character. And I considered being rude to attractive girls a way of showing that I was incorruptible. But on the other hand I guess I wasn't so nice to ugly girls either. I considered myself a noble knight against the great whore of babylon. Did I plan on remaining a lifelong virgin? Well perhaps I felt that once the great task was done, and I had completed a lifetime of duty, I would receive a bride as my prize. I wasn't clear on that. I suppose as a youth I held somewhat misogynistic views like I thought the role of women was to handle the homefront while the men waged war. And I wouldn't read books by women. But in someways those were progressive ideas. Since basically I was saying women should run the entire nation during wartime. Those were youthful ideas. I regret that my prejudice against female authors lasted fairly late. Even I could not entirely escape the culture of 21st century America. It takes time for consciousness to grow. Can I be blamed for reflecting the ideology of the place and time I lived in? Well I was still a developing character. I had simple military virtues and a complete faith in my star of destiny.Well I still hold to that. An ideal man should be entirely free of sexuality. If that is impossible in this world so much the worse for the world.

The biggest misogynists are incredibly sexually driven. So I don't see how you link incorruptibility to misogyny.

 

DING DING DING!

Exactly, jerks and bullies are in actuality, the least secure and self-confident of men. I certainly don't respect anyone, man or woman, who denigrates or is cruel to another in order to build up themselves.

 

Well while the prototypical anti-bully, I certainly had a great deal of confidence in myself in JRHS and HS due to my complete faith in my destiny. I believed in myself as though I was my own religion. I had been shy and quiet in elementary school but had a chance to totally reinvent myself as a new character for JRHS. I was wacky, crazy, psychotic, idiotic, moronic, brazen and insane. And I quickly had popular, attractive girls literally chasing me. I was ready taken by it at the time. And still remember it fondly. Although both then and now, I was pretty sure they were just pretending to like me to be hilarious.

Then when I played HS football, the cheerleaders used to decorate our lockers and bake cookies for us. I had the chance to meet the girl who did so. This reminded me of Little Nemo in slumberland thanking the princess for the cookies. I was very naturally strong in high school in a brutish sort of way, although I did not possess finesse. There never was a girl I really liked own my own. Usually I would be told that I liked a girl and being a good democratic man, I would accept that I liked her.

While no jock myself, having been a close associate of the jocks of HS, I found the hierarchy based on athletics far more reasonable than the hierarchy of college based on fraternity houses. I was far more willing to submit to the rule of a good quarterback rather than a good beer bonger.

 

The whole idea of a beer "bong" is lame.

But a girl who can take a proper bong hit, and be trusted to hold and use a valuable glass bong.... now THAT catches my interest:blush5:

There's a lot more to college than frat douchebaggery... my college has no frats... or soroties (or however the fuck you spell it) and I'm much happier that way.

Like the frat situation, you seem to just take the one social scene that you first walk into in any given situation, and judge all of humanity based on it....

And with that, I'm going to smoke pot with my friends, who ALSO love life. I'll try to bring some of the love back for you.