I'm having an issue with the cycle of rebirth...

If what I've been reading is correct, we're supposed to be freeing ourselves from attachment so we can escape the cycle of death and rebirth, right? What if the cycle itself is what I'm attached to? I like the idea of enlightenment, and would love to get that but if attained it seems that I won't be able to come back.

I kind of like it here. I've found an immense joy in helping to ease the suffering of others however I can: food, medicine, comfort, whatever. I live in a very poverty-ridden part of America, and in a couple of years will be moving somewhere even poorer. I have a lot to do, and a desire to do it. Any suffering of my own seems rather trivial sometimes in comparison, so it doesn't bother me that much.

Should I stop trying to be enlightened, in order to be able to do more? I've read that doing the things I like to do has enlightenment as a side effect, removing one from the cycle. Is there any way to arrange things so I can come back, whether enlightened or no?

 

What is it that becomes enlightened, perhaps the darkness? Can you see in the dark? How can you help, if you cannot see? Your light, lights the world.

Where is here or there? Is there a way you can come back enlightened or no? Let's say you are guaranteed to be recycled.

 

I can't see in the dark, but I can feel and I can move. Suffering is felt as well as seen. Relief is felt more than seen.


...I like recycling?

 

By all means recycle if you can, but right now you are being recycled. But as you enjoy the illusion of control there is no reason to escape from anything.

 

Oh, good. I feel better. I think...

 

Why are you seeking if you are satisfied?

 

Yeah I never got the supposed importance of not reincarnating. I think it is just that you achieve oneness with everything, and therefore do not exist coporeally.

 

Does an illusion have a body? To reincarnate is to present something in a new form. An illusion is something with a deceptive appearance, or a false idea.
An illusion may persist or disappear when compared to the truth, however it is a contradiction of terms is it not, to say illusions are reincarnated.

 

It is not a contradiction of logic for it to be bright sunny one day and raining the next. It is never not, but always is.

Something can be a phenomena or a feeling. It is a term that has an abstract nature.

From what you have said, do you feel then that the individual has no enduring integrity?

 

One of the most unimportant misconceptions in the minds, thought, ideas and perceptions of individuals is that Buddhism teaches and supports "REBIRTH".

It does not.

The Buddha taught that there IS birth. He did not teach that there is RE-BIRTH, as there is nothing of the original being that is being passed on because the being as such is non-self. What is being passed on are the results of one actions.

Buddhism teaches there are actions, and there are results to actions. That ALL action has [a] result. Seeing is an action, and as such has a result. Hearing is an action, and as such has a result. Smelling, tasting, touching, and thinking are actions, and as such have results.

That because we are non-stop seeing when our eyes are open, we are conditioning non-ending results (when our eyes are open). That becuase we are non-stop hearing, non-stop smelling, non-stop tasting, non-stop touching, and non-stop thinking, we are conditioning non-ending results associated with hearing, smelling, tasting, touching and thinking.

That it is the results of these actions which condition birth.

Each action is never the same in response to what we come into contact with because each object contacted is never the same, but different in that once an object appears, it immediately disappears, forever changing, never the same from one moment to the next.

As such what it conditions is never the same, but something different each time. So there is never a true re-birth, but there is the condition of birth as a result to conditions which give becoming to birth. And becoming itself is a conditioned response to another conditioning factor.

Self is only supported by continuous contact between sense and object (eye with light, ear with sound, nose with aromas, tongue with flavors, body with tangibles, and mind with thought), established and maintained, and the illusion is that we are what we see, that we are in what we see, that what we see is in us, that we are what we hear, that we are in what we hear, and that what we hear is in us, that we are what we smell ... taste ... touch ... think, and that what we think is in us. So posits this thing called self. When in fact it is a never-ending contact which conditions feelings, which condition perceptions, which condition mental ideas, which condition consciousness.

Please forgive this next statement, Agriope, if it has any type of offence, but your illusion is that you are constantly being born human on planet earth in this current realm of existence. You are not. You appear in whatever realm of existence based on the accumulation of results of actions ... all actions you experience and perpetuate.

In fact, it is the results of your actions which give the illusion of the realm you appear in. In essence, you create the specific realm of existence you appear in exactly the same way you perpetuate this particular realm of existence. Once created, it is continually being established and maintained based on the contact you have with it.

Another unimportant misconception is the idea that one can free oneself from ATTACHMENT by directly focusing ones attention on trying to liberate oneself from ATTACHMENT.

In Buddhism one learns that ATTACHMENT, called clinging (Upadana in Pali) is conditioned by craving (Tanha). That craving is conditioned by feeling (Vedana). That feeling is conditioned by contact (Phassa). That contact is conditioned by the six base [senses] (Salayatana). That the six base is conditioned by name and form (Namarupa). That name and form is conditioned by consciousness (Vinnana). That consciousness is conditioned by action (Sankhara). And that action is conditioned by ignorance (Avijja). Consequently, clinging conditions becoming (Bhava). Becoming conditions birth (Jati). And birth conditions death (Jara).

This blueprint for stress is clear on how to eliminate any particular conditioning. That is, in order to put an end to death, one only needs to put an end to what conditions death, and that is birth.

In this in order to put an end to ATTACHMENT one eliminates that which conditions attachment, namely craving. Oh ... but wait ... craving is also conditioned, and you can't put an end to craving by focusing ones attention on the sole elimination of craving itsef because the thing which conditions craving will continue conditioning it no matter how hard you try to put an end to it. So the only way to put an end to craving is to eliminate that which conditions craving and that is feelings.

But then you back to not being able to put an end to feelings because feelings are also conditioned.

To successfully put an end to death, to successfully put an end to birth, to successfully put an end to becoming, to successfully put an end to clinging (attachment), to successfully put an end to craving ... to successfully put an end to action, you MUST put an end to ignorance. Ignorance, in the Buddhist teaching is the ROOT of stress. Remove the root and the plant just does not grow.

The CYCLE itself is not what one is attached to. It is not what one clings to. It is not what one craves. It is the feelings one craves. It is the feelings one is attached to. Because feelings condition craving, which conditions clinging. It is the moment-to-moment sense-object-contact experience one is attached to. This moment-to-moment sense-object-contact, continuous, established and maintained which conditions feelings. As a result there arise perceptions. Perceptions are conditioned by continuous feelings from this moment-to-moment sense-object contact, continuous, established and maintained.

Perceptions condition action (sankhara: mental ideas, action, volition, fabrications) , and action conditions consciousness. This entire process is associated with all six senses. That is associated with eye, eye-object contact, there conditions feeling associated with the eye, perception associated with the eye, fabrications associated with the eye, consciousness with the eye. And likewise with the remaining senses.

It doesn't matter if it is this realm, or any other realm in this thing called Samsara, this same process is associated with any other realm you happen to manufacture.

Enlightenment is understanding. Understanding dispells ignorance. You can know something but never understand it.

I would like to ask you this. If you don't understand yourself ... how can you ever possibly hope to help anyone else? I suppose this fits with the same question Thedope asked (Can you see in the dark? How can you help, if you cannot see?).

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thats a really good idea. I like it, it works out pretty well.