There is God.

Burn

Occam agrees...
Reality..and the titanic structure and ballance of it...
Is awesome..and beautifull...

Maybe lazarus is just a guy..who thinks guys should only think women are beautifull..
That seeing beauty is a weakness in men...
When it is actually how we define being human.

The most beautifull thing occam has ever seen..Is the look in the eyes of a 6 month old baby.. All humanity was in that look..without the corruption and stupidity. That we turned it into.
That look is THE potential...
The core of us...

Occam

 

Occam, a monist will not agree with a dualist reguarding this subject matter. My consciousness is a result of my brain, which is measureable by the science of this reality. This reality and not some other one that I cannot be sure exists or have any reason to believe it exists.

What is mind? What epistemological grounds do you base your theory of the mind on? Possibility? Not good enough for me when I have 'fact'.

 

Um, no. Congratulations to both of you for arguing against a strawman.

My argument was not that the universe is not beautiful - it is in many ways (and in many ways it is not, considering the Argument From Physiological Horrors). The problem with your view is not that the universe is beautiful, but rather that beauty is in direct connection with saying that the universe is a single consciousness - and that we can call that consciousness "God". How do you move from one idea to the other? There is no rational transfer from your premise to your conclusion, and thus until you show one your points are moot.

- Laz

 

Lyall Watson, " If the mind were so simple we could understand it, we would be so simple we couldn't."

My belief is that my brain is like a computer, filled with programs and applications since its conception. And its purpose is to give my mind information as efficiently and clearly as possible.
My mind, in my view, is something more, not confined to my brain, but inhabiting my whole body.

 

Lazarus

Quite correct...Occam does not believe our subjective concepts of beauty have anything to do with a god...

He recants his earlier assumptions..

Occam

 

Thurmontico

Please expand.Occam thinks the brain is the 'apparent engine ' of mind..
But we know so little of either..yet.

What epistemological grounds do you base your understanding of mind on?
What understanding of how we understand.
Do you site to explain MIND.?

As you state....fact. Fact is a product of reason/logic.
Not wholely trusted by epistemologists.

And..what fact is that...?
regarding MIND there is only one.
"I.......

Show occam another FACT about what mind is.

Occam is not an Epistemologist. Logical positivist.
Empiricist. Solopsist,theist, antitheist, monist, dualist, existentialist, christian, moslem , hindu, creationist....and a hundred more..

He is occam

 

Don't care too much for labels, huh?

Facts re: mind
we each have our own one
one mind cannot truly know another
it cannot ever truly know itself completely
facts about mind are not facts

I am likely wrong about all of the above, but oh well, maybe I will learn something from the replies.
I am a believer in magic, miracles, prayer, love and logic.

 

I believe there are spirits, guides, guardian angels, whatever you want to call them, that protect and help us. I feel this cuz there is no way I have any right to still be alive, and yet I am. Should have been killed ten times over already.
I believe our souls can leave our bodies and travel. It is such a firm belief now, that in my reality, it is a fact, for me, no one else.
I believe prayer is powerful, and helps, though I admit I have little actual proof at hand. I have read some, and seen healings that defied all diagnosis.
I believe love will eventually banish hate into nonexistance, this is a feeling, nothing more.
There is God, in every speck of dust on earth and star in the sky.
For me, there is, and it is not male, but what it is I know not.

 

That is not completely a true statement....that is just what silly people think...I was raised christian..and in school they taught us that god is everywhere and is everything..

He is the sun, he is the moon, he is the sky, he is the mountains, the air, the wind...he is in all of the people that pass us by, he is in our hearts..our homes...our lives...

 

Rar1013, it is less about the christian belief, and more about the love of beauty as a whole. if you can find solice in beauty through christianity, that's great. i find solice in beauty through life.

 

If there is some supreme being that has brought this whole universe into existence, then I would hope that It would not care what religion one was, or whether one was religious at all. To specify that one must adhere to one particular scripture sounds too partisan and exclusive for such an omniscient entity. By whatever name, and through whatever faith, this same entity is being revered.

I have believed for many years that "Thank you.", and "Thy will be done." are the two prayers that have any meaning. This is only my view, and what I choose to believe, so it is not said in a spirit of conversion. It is said only for the purpose of sharing what I have concluded with all of you. I very much enjoy hearing your perspectives, and have learned a lot from reading them.

If God really does fit the description given by the Christian members here, then I cannot say that I revere him. He may be so, but I cannot truthfully say that I believe it to be. Hindus, Atheists, Animists, Wiccans, Sikhs, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, etc. are all equally valid paths in my view.

 

god help us all.

 

By Occam Razor:


That look is THE potential...
The core of us...


Thanks for that image

Thanks

 

makes me think


Could one being discover so much in a life

He could interact with the next one
Knowing what has not to be lost since the very beginning

How long is the process to make it

real

Thanks

 

Thumantico

And the science of this reality is based in WHAT?
Human existant mind.. seems a product of fuctional brains.
Thus mind. a fucton of brain, reasons that brain exists because mind does.
And MIND does exist..Or it would not be able to say it does.

For self to be able to say it exists... It MUST EXIST.

IT MEANS...that a reality exists. For there can be no phenomena of 'self' without 'a' reality.
Reality allows phenomena.
The phenomena of the thought
'i reason therefore i exist'

Verifies absolutely the realiy of itself.

Occam

///
Thus not only is
'i reason therefore i exist' an absolute truth [ a fact]
But also
'and thus a reality exists'
is also.

 

What is MIND?

 

Equally valid, but are some of them just sightseeing paths that never lead to the top of the mountain.

 

Well, Kharakov, I agree with your sentiment, in that I am totally baffled by the beliefs of some. Still, I cannot say that I know your claim to be true.
Life is a journey, which may be more important than the destination, I dunno.
Is there a mountain top? I dunno, if so, I hope I am not sightseeing.
How does one know for a certainty that another path does not get there? Maybe it switchbacks up the north side and comes out on top.

I do feel, though, that if there is a path, I am on the longer, more difficult variation. I even believe that this is by choice, though that choice is based on not taking people's advice on what I should do as often as I maybe could.
Instead, I try my way, get burned, and then say, "yeah, you were right."

I am not really looking for the top, instead, I am looking for the peaceful valley.

 

Thumontico

No human knows [NONE]

Occam

PS..
Thus psychiatry, psychology, neuro physiology...an a whole bunch of other 'olgies' are just a stab in the dark
WE HAVE NO REAL IDEA OF WHAT MIND IS.

That is why there are no THINKING MACHINES.
We cannot build [yet]
What we dont understand.

When we understand what MIND is...

We WILL build one.

And more importantly..understand our own.

Occam

 

On a mountain top you can look at many different things. Sometimes it's good to go down to the valley to see it up close.

I am looking for a resting place where I am in complete harmony with my surroundings. One valley is good for some, but requires a change in me for harmony to be reached. Instead of seeking to change the valley or myself, should I not look for the perfect valley for what I am- that I might compliment the valley in every way and make it complete?