Hedonists Have Taken A Bad Rap

Hedonists have taken a bad rap, and, as a result, they tend to have a bad reputation.

For starters, a hedonist is a person who looks to live a pleasurable life, and our ability to find pleasure is a subjective thing. However, being a hedonist doesn't mean that we give up all value judgements and just mindlessly go for whatever the next thing is that might make us feel good.

Hedonists, like most other conscious human beings, know that words and actions come with possible and very real consequences. No self-respecting hedonist (and hedonists really do respect themselves) wants to go through life making others miserable. What kind of hedonism is that?

A hedonist wants to have pleasurable and loving relationships with his or her fellow human beings, and the way to do that is to be kind, loving, grateful, compassionate and so on. Positive words and deeds make for more pleasurable lives for yourself and others. Screwing over your family, friends and neighbors is, sooner or later, going to produce negative consequences, and there's nothing pleasurable about that.

OK, does anybody want to discuss this?

 

can one be called a hedonist if one takes pleasure in nothing, and thus, seeks nothingness?

 

^ I think that's a Buddhist..

 

Sounds more like a nihilist.

 

Mine was joke.

 

wa bluska wica, If one is seeking nothingness, that means they are seeking something! It also means that you already have something, because if you already had nothingness, you wouldn't be seeking it. What is also true is that simply because somebody claims they are seeking nothingness, it doesn't mean that they are going to find that which they seek.

For many, the actual journey of seeking something, even if that which they claim to be seeking is nothing, is a pleasure in and of itself. So it goes...

 

We think of being only Her partner..., or actually courting her.


I thought of that yesterday on the subject of the life story of Lynda Lovelace. Anybody know about that movie star.

 

Karen J, We can live our lives in such a way that, just maybe, at least some other people will get the idea that hedonists are not self-absorbed jerks who neither consider their actions nor care about their fellow human beings. In fact, in order to truly live a pleasurable life, hedonists must consider their actions, and they realize that loving yourself and loving others is the most pleasurable thing you can do.

Take care...

 

So was his, he just didn't realize it.

 

Good luck with that. Conservatives are more likely to assume that we have been influenced by them when we do something positive. They take that as evidence that their efforts are paying off.

And let's get real. Some hedonists are self-absorbed jerks. That doesn't help.

I'm just trying to get beyond labels. Their usefulness is limited. I'm going to do what I think I need to do, and people can label it whatever they want. My favorite label is intelligent. That's what I'd like to be called, when I earn it. I'd rather know things than believe things.

 

As a Christian, I'm not allergic to hedonism, depending on how it's defined and operationalized. If hedonism is defined as seeking to maximize pleasure over pain, most people think of sensual pleasure and pain, which I find limited and objectionable as a complete life ethic. Ayn rand's objectivism is an example of a totally selfish application of this: in fact, she regards selfishness as good and altruism as evil. If, however, we took the opposite point of view and advocated total altruism and sacrifice of self for others, someone would be sure to argue that we're really motivated by hedonism because we get our kicks from giving instead of receiving. I think that makes the term a tautology, depriving it of all analytical value. I think that Epicurus himself, and John Stuart Mill, followed forms of hedonism that I respect and emulate. Mill was a utilitarian, but believed that there were higher (more deeply satisfying) forms of pleasure than others. Unlike his mentor Bentham, who believed that pushpin was as good as poetry (whatever turns you on), Mill would "rather be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied". In the Bible, Ecclesiastes is a source of this kind of thinking, and the "logotherapy" of Viktor Frankl puts it in a psychological context. It differs from the other worldly views of conventional Christianity. Satisfaction=Meaning in this world. I think it's foolish to deny "self". We are independent organisms, with self-contained nervous systems. But we can find personal satisfaction in serving God and others.

 

Okiefreak, I don't see any real inherent conflict between being a Christian and being a hedonist. For starters, God said that he created everything, including every seed and herb, and it was all good. If you really are a hedonist, you figure out that it is a lot more pleasureable to love than to hate, to be kind than to be angry, to be forgiving than to be vengeful and so on.

I'm somewhat familiar with Epicurus, Mill and some others, and they have some good thoughts on this subject. Bottom line, it is possible to love God, love yourself and love others. Not only is it possible; once you figure it out, it's the best way I can find to live my life.

 

Karen J, Yes, let's get real. Some self-absorbed jerks claim they are hedonists, but the fact that they make the claim doesn't make it so. People do a lot of horrible things and claim they are doing it for God, Jesus, democracy, career, fame, pleasure, love or whatever. If I'm the kind of asshole who beats his wife or kicks dogs (I don't do those things), I can claim I'm doing in the name of love, their best interests, pleasure or whatever, but I'm still a jerk and an asshole.

There has always been a hedonistic philosophy around, and it has always been a minority position because some scumbags have tried to justify what they do in the name of pleasure. From all that I can tell, that's not what hedonism is about.

My favorite label is loving. There are some things that I know, and some things I believe. It's probably always going to be like that. One of the things I both know and believe is that it is better to love than to hate.

 

i spent the last hour on the porch with a feral kitten i've been courting for a couple of months

he gave a little cry, and for the first time, let me pet him, scratch him, rub his tummy

at the end of it all, we touched noses, and he licked mine

[i did not lick his nose in return]

that, to me, is hedonism

 

wa bluska wica, I totally agree with you! Putting love into the world is what hedonism is about! I'm not as much for fighting for causes as I used to be, but, if I was going to pick a cause, I might just be one of the many who speaks up for the injustices and bad press that hedonists have received in an uptight world.

The idea that hedonism is about getting blotto and fucking your brains out with anybody who is available and not giving a shit about others is total bullshit. What is true is that we all can and do take pleasures from the simple things in lifel, and, when we do that, it's like saying "Thank you, God! I think you are cool!" (By the way, those simple pleasures include listening to The Godfather of Soul, Bob Marley, Sam Cooke, Aretha, Patsy Cline, Merle Haggard and countless others.)

 

Has the cat been tested for rabies? Have you?

 

We can continue to smoke, drink, and screw.

 

and eat mushrooms.

 

See, that's the stereotype of hedonism. As the forum description says, "If it feels good, do it." But that's not what hedonists in the know say. Hedonism tries to maximize the margin of long run satisfaction over pain in the long run. Which means that if smoking feels good at the time but gives you an agonizing death from cancer or emphysema in the long run, don't do it. The temptation to put short term gratification over long term satisfaction, and to put self-aggranizement over the welfare of others is very strong in humans, and any belief-system that encourages that behavior s stupid. Epicurus would agree.

 

Unfortunately, when it comes to what we can realize of our intentions alone, we can't help but put the short term over the long term. Slight hiccup. Needn't cause us as much agony as we fear. Something more like "If it really feels good enough not to want to stop, then what is actually stopping us?" To be countered at once with "Have a thought for what's needed." And then concluded by "Mind your own business!" lol