Help me understand (schizophrenia/birth control)

I have taken acid a total of 3 separate times, and each time have experienced the same situation.

The best way I can describe my reality during tripping is a cycle of thoughts, which all come to me one at a time, over and over in a circular pattern. These thoughts are very primal, such as needing a blanket or asking a particular question, over and over. As the hours pass, the cycle of these simple "goals" cause me to disassociate from reality, and even conjure up false realities, literally something out of my imagination. In my most recent trip, I have come to the point of envisioning killing myself in order to get out of the cycle I was in, which was something I had never thought of before. I was able to recognize that I was far from reality, but had no way of getting back, if that makes sense. Meanwhile, I do not remember a lot of my trips, and have many black outs through out.

My mom had schizophrenia, so I may be genetically prone to psychosis. I am also on birth control, which is also processed through the liver as acid is.

This may be a bit of rambling, but I am wondering if anyone has any insight, information, or can talk some sense into me. I'm pretty scattered right now.

 

It sounds like psychedelics are not for you in my opinion. I would definitely attribute your psychosis-like trips to the fact that you have a genetic predisposition to schizophrenia. This is not what a typical LSD trip is like, you don't get stuck in thought loops and want to kill yourself, at least it's a fairly rare occurence, and if it happens to you every time . . . I would just stay away, just like someone with a damaged liver should stay away from alcohol.

 

Agreed. No point in taking any unnecessary risks. Play on the safe side and don't trip acid or anything else for that matter.

 

I don't advise taking medical risks, but if you happen to do so this might help.

My first couple of trips I remember getting caught in thought loops, I would especially happen during the comedown. I would getting stuck in the same 3 thoughts continuously and just rotate and rotate, and I would be so tired of it, and felt so bored from it, it makes life feel utterly wasteful and meaningless, and a strong sense of this and then I die comes.

It is an awful feeling, but if you really bring you awareness to it, it can be over come. Now the energy is getting trapped in the mind, everything has become completely logical and cerebral, you are trapped in thought.

So you must move the energy up and out of the cycle, you have to redirect your consciousness to right here and now so your mind becomes aware of the change of the present, and doesn't get stuck in the looping unchanging past in the mind.

You can start by being aware of thought loop, what thoughts are looping, why are you associated with these particular thoughts at the moment. Try to expand your mind to think about if you have any thought loops in normal sober conscious. Do you switch back and forth from three or four daily tasks? Do you stick to an past ongoing pattern, instead of making new patterns and tasks.

The awareness of this will literally help the first part of the problem, you realize your in a cycle, and that you must come out of this cycle. Now you want to move the energy somewhere. Start thinking from you heart, try not to use thoughts, but try just feel emotions.

Let the energy move from you head into your whole being, become very conscious that every moment is new. If every moment is new, how can I keep looping? Become aware of your feelings, feel your gut feeling. Forget about your head, just completely forget the head is there. Think from your inner gut.

Now I do not have a family history of schizophrenia or psychosis, but I did have the thought loop problem, and this is how I over came it. If you practice this awareness, if you do this technique, then you may actually overcome it. But be very careful, practice this technique even before you try to trip again.

Now when this energy is shifting, if fear comes up about death, it is not you that is dying, it is only the mind that is fearing death. On a psychedelic trip the mind or ego goes through a type of death, and for the clinging mind this causes much fear. But realize it not you that is dying, you can't die, you very center is deathless. It is only your mind.

So practice moving your energy out of the mind, practice balancing your energy. Maybe even practice meditation and yoga, this will balance your energy completely. And if there were any cure for schizophrenia and psychosis, meditation and yoga are it.

 

No offense to you inthydreams, but OP ignore everything stated above.
You already said there is a family history of schizophrenia, one of the known risks factors with psychedelics is a genetic pre-disposition to certain types of mental illness.
From all that you have said I also would advise against further experimentation. We are not talking about "energy shifting" or any other pseudo magical mumbo-jumbo, we are talking about literal brain chemistry. LSD is known in some instances to elicit full blown psychosis or schizophrenia in those pre-disposed to it. We know that there is a hereditary component to schizophrenia, and LSD can some times "flip the switch" when it may not get "turned on" otherwise.
Safest bet would be to avoid psychedelics altogether.
Practicing yoga and meditation are good practices to adopt, but they are NOT a protection against bio-chemical causes of mental illness.

 

Hmmm. Though I won't recommend he/she takes LSD 10 more times to figure it out, but something tells me if he/she is cognitive enough to hear these loops, make sense of them, remember them, not give in to the ones that say "kill yourself," then it can also be something that can possibly be worked through. Medically, it's also likely it will just bring out lamented issues to fuller force, but to make it an open-and-shut case because we read LSD and 'schizophrenia' is I think a little too unfair to the topic, and OP.

Question, so once you "get a blanket," does that loop stop or does it move on to another one? What happens when you answer these thought loops? Can you find some sort of conclusion to them?

 

Considering these three facts;

1) it has been documented more than a few times in the research literature that exposure to LSD has and can bring on a full blown psychotic episode and initiate schizophrenia in individuals pre-disposed to it due to genetic/family history. no need to contend that point, it is a well documented fact.

2) We understand very little about how schizophrenia does it's thing or how it is triggered

3) We know almost as little about how LSD does it's thing and triggers it's effects.

Given the lack of knowledge in these areas and the documented instances of LSD precipitating latent mental illness, no I don't think a cut and dried "don't take it anymore" answer is out of line nor unfair to the topic or the OP.
I would say error on the side of safety and don't risk it.

 

"Studies have shown Y can lead to X"

Doesn't really tell us much about the actual & practical threat of X. It could be 3% of people. It could be only those with serious schizophrenia history. It could be many things, and I've said before, but I really hate when people read statements like that and have already made it mean more than it actually does. But yes, don't fuck with schizophrenia, play it safe.

-- still interested in the nature of the trip from the OP.

 

OP:

First: You are the only one that you can fully trust. (with the exception of: when you are trippin, in wich case you shouldnt trust your thougts, they might be "out of reality" as you describe, and thats what you where looking for when you took the acid in the first place right? (referring to: "disassociate from reality"))

Ive read your post, very carefully, and what i can say is:
You have nothing. Schizofrenia is just a word some humans made for some mind behaviours that they cant fully understand and/or be aware of.

So: You need a blanket? Really? why is that, you cold? you can have it if your cold... if not why would you need a blanket? maybe your scared or something? thats allright, dont judge yourself for that, i wouldnt judge you either. Just remember, the fear isnt gonna take you anywhere you want to... its better to stay sharp, cold and calculate more precisely. (this is just an example, like "in case of A's then go to B's")

Im just sayin the first things coming to my mind, what i want you to get is the fact that the only way of getting out of that cycle is inside your head, but whats more important, the cycle itself it is, and the idea of a cycle aswell. This doesnt mean you have to destroy your head to get out of the cycle, you just have to Re-arrange those thoughts in order to be satisfied with them, and that power is given to you, and no other being of this universe (and im sayin this because there are some ********** called psychiatrist, psychologist or w/e. that might want to help you, and could probably make your "trouble" much worse)

I think that we humans at some point of our lives, we experience some kind of "hell", and maybe we die in there, or maybe we come out, stronger than when we got there in the first place.

If someone wants to call you crazy, you will have to act as if you where crazy, so they can call you that way.

The thing is, nobody can call you crazy, unless you act as crazy, because you are the only one that knows what everything is, even the idea of what a crazy behaviour is it is inside your head... every tiny little thing out there is.

Everything has to go through your head first, so you can do whatever you want with it. (Yea i think everything its inside your mind, the spoon, us, the cosmos, and... who knows what else...?)

Remember: you have that power. (speaking of the creation of reality) And if it feels as if you dont have it, dont give it to others, ever, they dont know you, they dont know what your thinking, they cant help you. Just wait, enjoy the moment, think about the things you like, the little things right? Like lying there, doing nothing, or climbing a mountain or going outer space, its all inside your head, as the rest of your goals, so you can control them, if you dont want to need them, you dont. Simple as letting yourself create yourself at your will.

I really hope this helps you in some way... if it doesnt then im sorry for the time wasted reading it.

 

Thank you for responding, I enjoyed reading these opinions. I take these sorts of traumatic happenings very seriously. There is so much I can learn from, which is why I wanted to here some outsider perspectives. Unfortunately I am only looking at this thread over a week after my original post. During the time, I've spent a great deal researching, reading, and connecting schizophrenia with hallucinogens. I should have stated earlier, but what I perceive "schizophrenia" to be is simply a delusional state of mind. Not an illness, a condition, a disease. There is no cure because there is nothing to cure. Some of these posts have taken words out of my mouth on how I realized I needed to untangle myself in the trip, and I consider it to be the exact same scenario with an episode of "schizophrenia". It is basically just a state of confusion, and no professionals or medications will be as effective as simply restoring your own mind on your own can be. I'm saying this after reading about successful "ex-schizophrenics" who have "cured" themselves. And I used this as something to base my trip upon.

To simplify, the term of the psychosis, and this bad trip I experienced, all share roots. I may as well call myself schizophrenic during that trip because what I experienced is what schizophrenia is. Someone asked me the nature of the trip. It was lack of control. Acid sweeps your mind away, and like any change of state, a person will either accept the difference, or reject it and fight against it. I resorted to the latter. I don't think I mentioned, but the environment I was in was far from comfortable. Bunches of people running around, no planned activity, lots of improvising as a group. This took me away, and because I was uncomfortable (and probably would have been even if sober), I did what any uncomfortable person did, which is remove myself from the situation. This is where subconscious habits come into play. Ever speak with a poorly socialized person who has trouble absorbing what you are saying to them, and acts out of their memory instead, what they think they should be saying or doing, sometimes inappropriately or awkwardly. That was me. Except the acid also made me all the more petulant and vulnerable, and that's what caused me to resort to my most basic subconscious mind.

To answer another question, once I would get my blanket or ask my question or whatever, I would forget about it as quickly as the need came. I didn't actually need any of those things, they were automatic "reach outs" for something that I once learned should make me comfortable, in this case, I really think as a child. Cute.

One thing I have established about the state of mind and drugs, is drugs are almost too easy a give away. They give the same effect in one hour as weeks of self-interviewing and analyzing. They are really a remarkable tool to learn about your own behavior, and who knows what else. Anything, really. My biggest skeleton is the worry about one day finding myself down a schizophrenic road. So in this case, I will use drugs in the light of this fear. I understand the risks are stupid to ignore, but remembering that schizophrenia is not a tangible condition but a state of mind, I think if I use drugs correctly, they will teach me more and gain me more advantage if I ever need control. Obviously I had very little on this trip, but I've decided to to just one tab, with one or two people, in one setting, while they watch me and engage me if they see me going off. I've never actually planned a trip, so this kind of a controlled setting will be new, and I think I should not feel nearly as threatened.

I will also only take more once I am off birth control. I don't believe anyone said anything in regards to that issue, but I still say because both are processed through the liver, their interactions can lead to side effects.

So anyway, sorry for more rambling, but I feel a lot better right now, more sane and confident. I love that I felt such extreme feelings. The suicide thing really shocked me, but you gotta try everything once. And maybe I'll be back with how my future trip went. Who knows. Thanks again!

 

this^

 

And cancer is just a word humans made up for some cellular behavior we just can't understand/be aware of

 

Good point.

 

People who are prone to schizophrenia will usually manifest symtoms without the aid of psychedelics. I imagine the use of psychedelics would merely hasten the inevitable. probably not a good idea for the OP to continue using LSD.

 

I wont judge you for this comment, its perfectly fine for people to make this mistaken comparison you've done there. You cant compare anything with thoughts, read your signature again, the last part (speaking of the other sig you had with the quantum equations), if you cant be aware of the position of a particle, how can you be aware of the result of "googolplex (for no sayin infinite)"collisions at very high speed inside your brain. Simply impossible to know the result. Cancer its different, aswell as the rest of the universe's creations. The mind is a unique type.

You can say for example that a person has a "ill" mind behaviour because he kills himself thinking he has a chip inside his brain that is transfering his information to other ppl (clearly what ppl say its shizofrenia) but you wont ever know, even if you spend eternity studying it, how it feels to be like that, or what did trigger those thoughts inside his brain, you can say whatever you want, make a billion hypothesis, but you wont ever know exactly what was going inside his mind and how it happened.
You could say for example "he was being induced with strong paranoia producing drugs, aswell as undercover information of a chip inside his brain, and the enzime 004H receptor etc etc.." Even in this case, you cant say it was because of that, as many ppl in this scenario wouldnt believe it either. And you wont be able to know beforehand if this person will react like that, you just can observe ppl's mind "illnes" and try to understand them, but you simply cant, as for example in an instant, the person after being 20 years with this illnes, realizes that all of this was inside his mind. (this is just an example)
And personally i wouldnt ever give a person with this kind of "ill" behaviours drugs to avoid this. If i were to cure them, i would fill them with love, and a very nice place to live, in nature, and maybe provide them with some "drugs" but to make them feel better and re-consider this "ill" thoughts, never to avoid them, and only if they want to.

Also remember that shizofrenia is what society with his psichiatrists have created. You cant go inside a shizofrenic mind, and compare that with the outside world and say that one of those is better than the other. Im quite sure that many people feel exceptionally good, even when they shouldnt, for example a person that when all his family dies in a murder, starts to laugh incontrollably, for hours in joy, is that so bad? Your gonna medicate him? Label that person as schizofrenic? Its just different than me and you, and maybe better.

 

Dude, you really have no idea what your talking about and are just rambling crap.
You obviously have never dealt with a seriously mentally ill person before, have you?

Schizophrenia (notice the spelling), depression, bi-polar disorder, mania, and many more forms and types of mental illness can be directly linked to some biological, physiological cause just the same as cancer can be directly linked to cells growing out of control and environmental factors that cause it. Your comprehension of mental illness is laughable.

Regardless off what you "think" about it here is what is "known"

Schizophrenia is caused by an alteration in brain chemistry and function. The exact mechanism is still unknown, but it is fairly certain to have a bio-chemical cause, not just "different thoughts".

It has been shown fairly conclusively that schizophrenia is hereditary and children born to schizophrenics have a greater pre-disposition to developing the disease.

LSD and other psychedelics have been linked to the emergence or early onset of latent mental illness, including schizophrenia.

Th OP said that they had at least one parent diagnosed with schizophrenia, and has relayed some very atypical LSD experiences.

Smartest thing for the OP to do is stay away from psychedelics and speak with a professional about their experiences.

 

I read stuff like this and am astounded at the level of chosen ignorance that is exhibited. Pick up a book and educate yourself on topics that interest you. Don't just pull garbage ideas out of your ass and then go on to try and help another person when you have nothing but your own own flawed logic and thoughts to go by.
I'm talking to you chinacat and braincells.
There is how we want the world to be and there is how the world actually is. You guys need to spend a little more time on the "how the world actually is" side of the fence.

Did you forget that one of the most earthshattering and world changing things that LSD brought about was the idea that mental illness could have a biological cause as opposed to an emotional one.
That allowed the world of medicine to get away from outdated and ridiculous ideas and treatments for mental illness, much like what you guys are saying here.

Please join the rest of us in the 21st century.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEglHjd_gUQ"]YouTube- Terence Mckenna - Schizophrenic or Shamanic?


I don't post this Mckenna video to somehow "prove" you wrong PB Smith, but only to invite you to not make such strict conclusions about things, especially mental disorders, and ESPECIALLY ones that are as foggy and unknown as Schizophrenia. Don't pretend to know "the way the world is" and what Schizophrenia is simply because you've read some books about it and have a general idea of what the current mainstream consensus is about it. Do you think a Schizophrenic person gives two shits about what the doctors' description is of what's going on inside of their head? They don't know shit about what's going on inside of them.

 

Well first off I don't consider McKenna a good source for anything except some interesting, far out ideas. He just isn't a very credible scientist or researcher in my opinion, so please, no more McKenna anything directed at me to try to consolidate your position. It has the opposite effect. Plus I can't get past that whiney, nasally voice of his, it grates on my nerves and makes my fillings hurt.

Many, if not all forms of mental illness have a biological basis for cause. You can't just "think happy thoughts" and be cured. Regardeless what you or McKenna think, schizophrenia has a biological cause, which seems to get "turned on" in some indviduals with a genetic pre-dispositon to the disease. Them are the facts as it stands now regardless of what you or I think about it.

Sorry, but I think reading some books on the topic goes a lot further than taking some mushrooms and then thinking "what if" while your baked as being a valid source of information.

 

The only point i'm trying to make is to drop all positions and be open to all the perspectives. Yes, i'm not denying that there is a biological and physiological explanation. Of course there is. But to think that is the only and most authoratative conclusion on schizophrenia is a mistake in my opinion.