What makes Obama a "Socialist"?

Now you are being ridiculous.

However, if the miners chose to work in a mine, KNOWING the risks, then God Bless them they died doing what they wanted to do. No one forced them into the mine.

You are being childish accusing me of thinking it's ok for workers to die to make companies rich. There's that simplistic view again. Automatically blame the executives. Obvioiusly, the executives took a squad of heavily armed goons, forced people to work in a dangerous situation and then laughed with glee when the mine exploded.

Is all the world a bad fairy-tale to you? I feel sorry for you.

OTOH if I choose to engage in risky behavior and it comes back on me. I will NOT blame you, the government, or ANYONE ELSE for my choice and the corresponding results.

One of the differences between you and I is that I believe in personal responsibility. The FREEDOM to engage in personal responsibility. The FREEDOM to make good choices, bad choices and reap whatever those choices bring me. I do not believe the government or anyone else should save me from myself.

I don't want you or anyone else telling me how to live my life.

 

again, all you really want is to not be a part of american society

which is interdependent, as all societies must be in the world we have inherited

i feel sorry for you, but i feel more sorry for the rest of the country if you anti-social types ever effect your "revolution"

 

libertarians are always telling me to "vote with my feet", "quit", "move"

i'm assuming they say this a lot, it seems to be their main answer to society's ills

perhaps, since they are the ones who are so dissatisfied with the united states of america that they are "talking revolution" . . .

. . . perhaps they should take their own advice . . .

[and if you go carryin' pictures of ron paul
you ain't gonna make it with anyone anyhow]

 

last but not least

all this bullshit about the "original america" that i keep hearing about

the america where women could not vote or hold office

the america where some children were born as other peoples' property

the america which expanded its territory by means of genocide

ah, the good old days of liberty . . .

 

you know, i just woke up and realized that the government was depriving me of my liberty

i don't drive a car, and they are holding a gun to my head, forcing me to pay for traffic lights

just so you entitlement junkies don't hurt yourselves

if you drivers choose to drive, knowing the risks, then god bless you, you die doing what you want to do

no one forced you to get behind the wheel

they who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little traffic safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety

 

DJ-regarding socialized medicine,check out Scandinavian countries, France,Germany ect. Find out how the people feel about their coverage.

 

You really have a reading comprehension problem. I never said I don't want to be part of society. I just said I want to live my life the way I see fit. Not even close to the same thing, and how do you know how I want to live my life? You don't. Maybe I want to work in a soup kitchen 7 days a week and find shelter for the homeless. You have no idea, but you really like to make me out to be an inhumane monster. Like Obama, you like to make snap judgements without those annoying little things called facts. That's really ignorant.

 

LOL, you sounded like you were starting to get it. Then you want all childish again. Traffic safety and liberty? LOL. You might have a valid point there.

 

You know, honestly, I don't care how THEY feel. That's not the point. Forcing people to participate is not freedom, it's big government knows best slavery.

But if you want to get into how people feel about socialized health care, you best also include Canada and Great Britain.

And if you want to get into how well socialist economies are doing, check out those very same countries. And don't forget Greece ... where people when they were told the government (nanny/momma) was going to have to cut back because they could no longer afford cradle to grave extravagant government give-aways, those entitlement junkies rioted in the streets. They KILLED people by burning them alive because they were going to have to cut back or watch their country melt down completely. Killed people because they were going to have to cut back. It needed to be repeated. They are so spoiled and righteous about their entitlements they are willing to kill when the give-aways are threatened.

That's obscene.

I have no use for people who are born feeling that everyone else owes them a living, health care, food, whatever. No need to do ANYTHING to earn a living, that's for chumps. So when EVERYONE is living off the government, how is the government going to pay for it? Socialist governments do not produce anything other than power-addicted, corrupt politicians and entitlement junkies. Someone has to pay, right. Not going to be you is it? So you demand I pay, and like it or be called inhumane and neanderthal by entitlement babies.

Pathetic.

 

Settle down pal--never said that to you. Just suggested you check them out. There's good and bad everywhere. Check out the good is all I meant. I'm not prone to attacking those who don't agree with me.

 

Barney Frank would most likely be the teabagger, and Nancy Pelosi, corse mannered and contemptible fits one definition of neandertal.

You threw out the words, I only put them in relevant context.

Obviously your usage of the word 'teabagger' was intended to reflect derogatorily upon the Americans who make up the Tea party movement. My usage was in no way homophobic as Barney Frank is openly gay, and the slang term would be one which originated from the gay community. The fact is, I don't like Barney Franks politics, although that doesn't mean I'm anti gay. I also don't like Obamas politics, which doesn't mean I'm a racist. I don't like Nancy Pelosis politics either, and that doesn't make me anti women. Since I didn't like John McCains politics either, I guess you would call me anti white also? It's their politics, not their race religion, sexuality, etc.

I explained it above.

 

okay, okay, okay

i saw this in an anti-linux thread somewhere, but it fits here too

between the abuse of the word freedom and your dislike of progress [that is to say, moving forward]

from now on, you too are freetards

 

Anti-social? Lots of definitions and examples of socialism in this discussion. We are social creatures and we work best when we work cooperatively. There are things that we can accomplish working together that we cannot accomplish as individuals. Up to this point, all (even libertarians) can agree.
Where we start diverging is in what 'working together' should be and how and who should benefit from the cooperation.
Bad examples of socialism and communism are based on the lies by the leaders that the benefits of 'socialism' is for all - when really it is for the elite.
Good example of socialism - people working together for the common good - is explained here in this explanation of our social contract. http://www.truth-out.org/tax-cuts
As we see - we all built the infrastructure that made it possible for business to thrive in this country - the roads, fire stations, educated workers, dams, electrical grids to run the factories, ports for shipping,etc.
When business has to make more and more $ every year, they have to start shirking their responsibilities to pay taxes for their share of the infrastructure that they use. They have to start using less employees and getting cheaper labor and material from overseas. Since profits must always escalate it has gotten to where they don't/ can't pay an American worker a living wage, yet they want to profit more and more off the American 'consumer'.
And even libertarians claim to believe that dipping into the taxpayer's pocket to bailout private corporations is a bad example of capitalism.
However, libertarians also seem to believe that they should be able to pick and chose - who they want to cooperate with (in both the pubic and private sectors) or even if they want to cooperate at all. Unfortunately, when individuals believe that they are 'free' to pick and chose who they cooperate with, they also feel free to dispossess and oppress minority sectors of society (blacks, women, gays). As citizens of the same country we obviously should all cooperate with one another and there is no such 'freedom' to discriminate in who you want to cooperate with as a citizen.
Between 8 and 15 Million (depending on who's numbers) American workers have lost their jobs. So this is for the djdude. Do you really believe that 8 to 15 million of your fellow citizens all the sudden all together just decided to be lazy? Formerly hard working and productive people just threw in the towel so they could soak up your hard earned cash?
Do you think that one and a half million American families this year just all decided that this was a good time to become deadbeats and default on their mortgages? Life is so much easier sleeping in the park - the epitome of American freedom.
Dude - most folks in the US are miserable at their jobs and would quit if it would not -literally- cost them their lives. Either by loss of medical care/insurance, or hunger and exposure to the elements.
Just because there are a few good jobs out there for extremely talented people (upper 90th percentile) - like yourself - does not mean that all the others (that are not as blessed as you appear to be) deserve to suffer. That they deserve to be unemployed and homeless. Should the ones that finished in the lower 10th percentile - be homeless and hungry because they are not quite as smart? Or should the most basic job pay at least enough to survive?
A society that only rewards the top 10% of it's population with the resources sufficient to survive (and thrive in luxury) and leaves the rest to suffer is fascist, elitist and anti-social - regardless of what you want to label the form of government that produces it.

 

So much for intelligent conversation.

And I am a Linux user, which is a free OS in many distributions, but provided as such as a free choice by the many developers who contribute. This is the way charity should work also. Some Linux users contribute money to developers, while others contribute programming, and still others just consume the product, which is okay too, but no force is applied by anyone to use it, purchase it, or produce it.

 

Don't you think it's telling that Communist China is keeping us afloat right now, along with many other capitalist nations.

One of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard since newborn humans have no opinions.


You keep harping about not being able to live your life as you see fit. That's crap, you know it and your ridiculous rhetoric is getting boring. You started by accusing me of insulting you and you then proceed to insult everyone who disagrees with you, even Mr. Wicca, who is one of the most respectful people here.

I think you're here for one reason, to badger the liberals, but you're only proving our points by being such an ass. You're the type of conservative I like to debate, one with lots of buttons to push, one who cannot keep his cool, one who opens his mouth and shows his true colors.

I'll say it again, if you don't like America, please leave, the rest of us will be much better off without your whining and sniveling about paying your fair share. You have no appreciation for the freedoms you have and no respect for American values. You keep spouting this crap about paying for government programs you don't like; welcome to the real world, all of us do. Grow up and learn that you do not live here alone, you live in a diverse society with 310 million other people who all have different values and ideas.

The whole idea of America is for all of us to work together, compromise and vote on issues. The majority rules, that's the way it is, and in the last election, your side lost.

My challenge to you is this: Put together an intelligent post about why you don't have the freedom to live your life as you see fit. If you cannot do that, you've lost your argument.

.

 

to all teabaggers, freetards, whatever i'm calling you at the moment:

your philosophy is simplistic, regressive, paranoiac, anti-societal

it ignores the simple facts of human behavior, creating a non-system which gives us the freedom to destroy, the liberty to exploit

as such i have no respect for it, and thus can have no respect for anyone believing in it

[special note to individual: i used linux for several years too, and the term freetard fits well there -- plus you get the spectacle of libertarians whining about fairness in the linux forums . . .]

 

And yet you demand abusively that all others respect your beliefs?

 

you are free not to!

it's a democracy

fortunately those of you who want us all to live in armed bunkers are in the minority

btw, i have found that in the united states, one can live an absolutely outrageous life, as long as one keeps it to themselves

why don't you try it?

[especially the keeping it to yourself part]

 

also, please note my new "user title" [the bit under my nickname]

thanks, teabaggers!

[and please stop lying about that name, everyone remembers you all waving your little bags in the air]

 

China is not a capitalist nation. They are commies using cheap labor to make the elite rich. And they keep threatening to dump us based on our insane national debt.

Thanks for twisting my words JackAss. You know I wasn't referring to newborns, but people who ACT like newborns their whole lives.

LOL, Jack, your own profile gives you away:

Interests: ... bitching about conservatives.

That's your life ambition? Spewing bitterness against people you've labeled and don't even know? Defending entitlements as if they were God given?

Come on man, if you have any functioning gray matter left, start using it.

And stop challenging me to intelligent discourse when all you do is attack and insult. Talk about boring. Old man, get a life.