Curious - How do view the mom who killed her kids in Georgia?

I find it very difficult to be objective when it comes to children being murdered.

I do understand that obviously there was/is something really wrong with the person who did that but I have no empathy for them.

For a mother/father to murder their own child is so heinous that it is not imaginable to the rest of society. Their role is to protect those children.

They may have emotional problems but that does not give them the right to murder nor does it justify why they did.

My sympathy would be with the person who knows they are in over their head and can not manage and seeks to protect their children from themselves.

 

Thinking about whether or not they have the "right" is not the point. Have you ever researched postpartum depression and/or postpartum psychosis and how intense it can be? It can result in a complete break from reality and a sense of "right" or "wrong". It is basically fear/intimidation-based insanity, resulting from the stresses of parenthood. I don't care who you are, but parenthood is fearful/intimidating for anyone, regardless of how much you want children or think you are ready for children. I'm not saying it's excusable, but it is understandable, and I don't think a person should be imprisoned for a lifetime because of a lapse in sanity and/or emotional strength. They should be treated, plain and simple.

 

I agree they should be treated. Without doubt they need that as to simply throw away the key hardly is changing what drove them to that point.

There is no excuse for it to happen, only legal defenses.

Treat them but then make sure that it can not happen to any other child at that offenders hands again.

I do not have empathy for the perpetrator, I save that for the victim.

Post par tum depression is very real and actually surprisingly common. Children and the responsibility can be overwhelming. I agree. Since there is not retroactive birth control for those who can not stop themselves from killing a child, there is little option left but to make it impossible for them to do it again.

People do snap and go too far many times and children are abused but you can not go much further than killing them.

To acknowledge that there is something wrong with someone who can do this and expect that they get treatment is acceptable.

For them to ever be in a position to be able to possibly harm another child is not.

 

I agree/disagree with all of this. It's a touchy subject. Have you heard that Brooke Shields had postpartum depression and even considered murdering her child? She talked about it openly and talked about how she got past it. It is terrible, but it is also treatable. It is a temporary psychosis and I don't think it's fair to ONLY consider the children, in these extreme cases, though the death of the children is definitely the worst part.

 

I agree it is a difficult subject.

I did state that I totally understand that it does happen and I stated that anyone who steps back and gets help can usually with a lot of work overcome this. My heart goes out to those mothers who have to do that as to doubt and hate yourself as you do not bond or think harmful things must be horrific.

I can totally support a person who needs help then. With compassion.

Once they cross over that line then it is not the same thing for me. There are always choices in life. That is what happens to all others who deal with these same issues but they make the choice to not kill their child or children.

 

The husband of Andrea Yates seemed to not have a good understanding of mental illness. I remember watching him on a news clip and talking about how his wife had problems again but he thought they would buy some pills and, in his words, 'nip it in the bud' before it got worse. As if this problem were as simple as a head cold.

On a news clip the last thing I remember him saying after the conviction was that he was going to get married again and have more kids.

The conviction was overturned and Andrea was found not guilty by reason of insanity.

.

 

A tragedy for all involved. My knee-jerk reaction is to want increased support for new and single mothers.

 

I don't think it's that simple. Psychosis is psychosis, and it's impossible to control when you get on that level. It sucks, and it's the worst thing imaginable, but it's still unavoidable. Treatment is the only option, as far as I'm concerned, and prison is just a waste of life, in this situation.

Side note.....I've experienced psychosis, and emotions/actions are uncontrollable in the midst of a psychotic episode; especially in the most intense scenarios. "Reason" is non-existent and compassion is meaningless. Nothing can stand in the way of your most primal urges in the midst of psychosis, and you won't stop for anything until those urges are satisfied.

 

There is treatment and support now but as usual there is not enough. Sadly.

 

I am sorry that you have lived that.

I have not said at any point that those who do this should not have treatment. I do believe they need treatment. I am positive that many will benefit from having treatment.

That they are incarcerated and serve a sentence for the crime the committed seems to be where we disagree.

Usually in cases where it is shown that mental capacity is diminished then there is some leniency on the part of the judicial system. That varies according to the case and history. If a person would benefit more from being incarcerated in an institution that is geared toward mental illness then that they are placed there is at the discretion of the courts.

If they are declared to be mentally fit before their sentence is completed then they should still serve out that sentence, in my opinion.

 

I agree with this post, completely. Each case varies, and some of these people deverve to be imprisoned, while others don't. It's a very thin line though. That's the point I'm trying to get at, and I think we both agree on that point.

 

I do think we agree.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.

 

Thanks for the serious answer. I just wonder sometimes if people think through the reasons so much crazy shit happens - And can at least some of it be addressed.
I've been on HF for a couple of years and I actually do not take it so seriously. In this instance I was hoping maybe we could examine the issue before it became toxic - At which point I generally abandon the thread.

 

Scolding is a very good word, and perhaps I did do that and perhaps I did it to incite more serious consideration.

I agree that shit just happens. I read a tattoo the other day that said basically "The day we see an end to war is the day we die."
Because shit happens, and human nature is such that it will happen does not mean we can not feel compassion - can you run out of love - can you run out of compassion - I don't think so unless you tell yourself all is useless. I can't do that.

 

Food poisoning?

 

I can't "run out" of love for the love I have and hold isn't mine but is the universe's and is omnipotent. However, being a human being of a certain belief I can choose who I feel compassion for. I can be sad that two little children died, and I can be sad a parent lost their children, but aside from that I see so much of this and other sad things in general and it is just too much to feel something for each and every case. Unfortunately being human I tend to reserve my love and compassion for those closest to me. It is a quite sad but true biased that had this happened to someone close to me I wound feel much different and would probably never utter something as bold as, "life goes on," but it didn't. I extend my love to all people, but my empathy is reserved for those I feel deserve it. That's just part of being human.

Yea. Top Notch said she had food poisoning from eating parts of her baby :ack2:
However I'm not sure if he was joking or not.

 

No she didn’t suffer food poisoning only the heartbreak which comes from the loss of a child
and a guilty conscience


Hotwater

 

I don't buy that. Something as heinous as this could only be done by someone who would never feel its true effects imo. A lapse in judgement or sanity wouldn't be enough to go through with this. Did she not use 3 separate knives to cut off her babies head. The first two weren't getting the job done. That doesn't seem like an act of someone who'll later regain enough sanity to repent.

 

Not everyone is rational, logical or emotionally consistent.
Some people really are mentally disturbed and/or suffer from ridiculous mood swings. So I can buy this.

That doesn't really excuse her in that sense though, it is still prudent to have her taken care of, for her and others' safety.