Official Bible Interpretation Thread

Heaven and earth are diametrically opposed perceptions of the same phenomena. The state of the world that you see is one that we will insist upon until we have forgiven the world our judgments. However we cannot serve two masters or see two worlds. The end of judgment comes with the last one. The forgiven world is the world god created, not the world we create with our judgments.

Further example of our culpability in producing the effects we see.

The light is the illumined spirit. The eye is the lamp of the body, if the eye be sound the whole body will be full of light. Jesus says this practice of forgiveness, of regarding our brother and ourselves as holy children restores our awareness of gods kingdom, "sight" which is naturally expressed as love for one another.

There is no constituent representative in reality to support this claim. I do not see a single doctrine but many. Many denominations. Different orthodoxies.

Wisdom is justified by her deeds, forgive is the instruction. In a modern vernacular, BRING IT! . Be vigilant only for god and his kingdom. Bring light to the world. The holy spirit baptizes with fire. the light in your mind lights the world. If the light in you be darkness, how great the darkness.

Love is without condition. Our instruction is to love god not define him.

No but men have motives.

What is the evidence for your guess def.

What pain is mentioned before "the fall".

God did not create woman out of man either. I regard the second genesis story as mans take on his own construction, Patriarchal Culture.

"Finally" he says indicating the fulfillment of a longing, a sense of separation.

Again my points are not meant to be doctrinaire, they are a symbolic way of presenting the situation.

What god gives is truly given, we are not without god.

 

As I know nothing about prophecies or messiahs, this means nothing to me. You may see a continual line. I see a light displacing superstition and confusion. True, I add nothing, subtract nothing from the gospels - they are the completeness of Christianity in and of themselves. The rest of the bible is of curious interest, but is irrelevant to my simple understanding of Christ's instructions. As He has shown the way absolutely clearly, argument over old testament scripture becomes a hindrance to my view, as does the 'epistles' (opinions) or 'prophecies' (visions) of latter writers.

All that matters to a Christian is to walk the way of Christ. Origins and 'end times' are not necessary for that. Only what he has instructed us to do is important. All mysteries will be solved through such simplicity.

 

The proper way to understand or interpret scripture is to ignore the scripture where it contains both prophecies of things to occur and prophecies concerning the messiah?

To be a Christian is to not believe that Jesus is the messiah but just a nice person with good teachings?

You see them as a hindrance because it takes away from Christs teachings? Why?

Walking the way of Christ has many parts to it. Much of it is to impart practical wisdom, and I agree with you that it does this, and in many ways it is simple.

You say that only what he has instructed us is important, but one of the things that you argue against is that we shouldn't concern ourselves with prophecies, origins and discussions on the 'end times'; These are the same things that Jesus instructs us to do.

Jesus often referred to apocalyptic books and asked us to study those. He also said that we should keep an eye out and watch for the signs of the end, and he also mentioned that if we cannot believe in the earthly things, then it would affect our ability to believe in the heavenly things.

What you say seems to agree with some of Jesus' instructions but not all of them.

 

I didn't say what the proper way to interpret scripture is. I said that the instructions of Christ are what's important. Those who wish to devote their time, intellect and free-will toward understanding bible mysteries are accessing truth in the way that suits them. For me, the truth I need is contained in the gospels. Other truths may be revealed to me, but the way of Christ is the way to all truth, so that's where my faith is focused.

 

Are you referring to how we can be trusted with the kingdom if we cannot be trusted with unrighteous mammon?

 

Jesus is a nice person and is the Christ. He came from God into the earth to show us the way home. Does that satisfy the expectation of messiah-ness?

 

I see... sorry for getting a bit carried away.

 

Sure, just as long as we see him as the only messiah and the one described in scriptures

 

Thank GOD there's not an Unofficial Bible Interpretation Thread (we could call it UBIT, say in RT or Stoner's Lounge....

OHSHIT CATOUTOFBAG....

 

I woulda chosen that but it doesn't seem as snazzy :eggnog:

 

You know, Jesus does speak to the sister of Lazarus (Martha) and she thought that Jesus would raise him on the last day. But Jesus didn't raise him on the last day, he raised him during his ministry. I wonder if this somehow changes the idea of first and second death... This part is confusing me tbh. John 11:23-24 Could she have been wrong and Jesus proved that she was?

He did call himself the resurrection, but Paul later on seems to be talking in favor of a last day resurrection, as in an earthly paradise.

What can we make of:

1 Corinthians 15:20-23
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

What does "But each in his own turn" and "then, when he comes" refers to?

Jesus is said to return, and that those in their own turn will be made alive. What do we make of this?

 

I said the argument over them is a hindrance to me. I did not say that they take away from the teachings of Christ.

It's too easy for me to lose my way in intellectual argument over translations and interpretations of ancient scriptures that may or may not be cryptic, symbolic, allegorical, literal. As a Christian, the most important thing is to keep myself mindful of Christ's instructions. This does not mean that I don't read and ponder scripture.

 

It's the same scriptures that teaches you the ways of Christ, though, and they are just as ancient. We don't have to lose his way when we argue these things. I think that would only be true if we end up being abusive to each other, and even then we can forgive each other.


Jesus gives us instructions on how we can understand what is allegorical, symbolic, and literal. My point is that Jesus doesn't leave us in the dark to these matters.

It seems very Christian to me to discuss these matters with other Christians. Not that we should put end times, and prophecies ahead of what it is meant by love. Everything Jesus said and did has importance.

 

Hope, and knowing at this moment are two differnt things than saying "I 100% know without a shadow of doubt that I will receive the reward.

http://www.catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp

Salvation is not merely going to heaven at some point in the future, but a process.

 

On the contrary, the Epistles (or opinions as you call them) are Scripture. Peter wrote that all Scripture is good for teaching. Not all doctrine is contained within the Gospels.

And what did he instruct us to do? Please be as complete as possible.

 

Moses' law is not the law of men but of God. The purpose of Moses' Law was to be a reminder of sin (cf. Hebrews). Jesus did not end the law of Moses as others have stated, but to fulfill hwat was written and promised in the law. The final word of God is the person Jesus Christ who is the Word made flesh, the image of the invisible God. Christ is the most complete revelation of God

A higher authority than what?

 

Did he now?

 

There is one bodily ressurection, even though our souls are immediately judged after death. Christ goes to the Father to prepare places for us there (presumably) for when we go as well, not for him to bring back.


There is a difference between a soul and the body. Resurrection, here, refers to the body.

 

I believe what I am saying I already said.

 

Okay, let's look at it, this "dream of separation".

Genesis 2:20-23 (King James Version)
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

First, it is interesting to note that although it doesn't directly say that Adam woke up, it doesn't directly say that Adam dreamed either.

Next, please note the reason for God to put Adam to sleep, it was to create for Adam a helpmate.

Next, note that God brought Eve to Adam and Adam says; "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man". Does that sound like the words of a dreaming man? Does it seem reasonable that God would present Eve to Adam while Adam was still sleeping?

The Bible indicates the the trouble mankind is in, started after Eve's creation not before.

Next, please note who it was who caused Adam to sleep, are we to believe that God was thus responsible for this "dream of separation" that has caused mankind such problems?

Is that what you consider loving God with your whole soul? Accusing God of being responsible for mankind's problems.

Thus this whole "dream of separation" doctrine you have have come up with is not God loving but God dishonoring and so it seems to be just another lie from the the father of lies.