Isn't the real challenge to make the world where you live a better place then to make a private better place for a reserved number of people? isn't it escapism? drug use has learned me alot about escapism. In the past i always wanted to run away to a commune, or go to greenland with every like minded persons! (because of the global warming! (existant or not existant) it will become paradise!) ..but from life i have learned that eventually you just have to confront your demons. I do think it is one of the nicest things one can do, create a safe haven for those who are just sick and tired from society, but it should always be a temporary solution, not a permanent..like a break from life. I play online games with other people to escape this reality, on daily basis..now that i quit drugs..but its just escapism i wonder how good escapism is in the end.
I think if you try to change society it will probably change you instead, which is why creating your own culture amongst likeminded people is so important. Its not escapism so much as survivalism.
okay, that does make sense. but it still makes me wonder. i don't think you have to flee to keep your unique identity, you can surround yourself with the people you like within society, and try to make this subsociety (or whatever i should call it) pleasant..its terrifying how many people living in cities are lacking the mental support they need and all, and how much suffering there is..but if all the good people go away..who will help those that are already lost?
thats exactly what its all about, creating a subsociety within society. The subsociety doesn't neccessarily have to completely drop out of society; in fact, ideally the force of the subsociety should be so strong that their ideals and visions will trickle over into the bigger society.
yes you are right, i somehow always imagine communes to be extremely isolated groups..like i saw a video of some black bear commune thing in the sixties wich was somewhere in the middle of nowhere, and hundreds of people who gather there to be away from society..however, the diversity of the people created exactly the same problems outer society has. but okay..then there is the agrument about mainstream hippies and real hippies ^^. but then again, my father who was in the anarchistic movement in the eighties back in belgium here, used to live in a commune, but this was in the end just a living place with like minded people, not from the purpose of seeking isolation but just being surrounded with people he could connect too, and it didn't stop their activism in the real society. okay! i like thinking about things like this ^^.
i want to live on a commune with my friends but not because i want to drop completely out of society. I like nature so i know i will be happiest living in the country, i don't trust the government so being self sufficient sounds pretty great. I get tired of driving, i hate traffic and suburban sprawl, i just want to be away from all of that. but all my friends are artists of sorts; if we ever did have a commune it would be an artistic commune and we would give our art and our music back to society.
I like that idea, it sounds neat, i don't think i would have the courage anymore to do such thing, maybe 3 years ago, society has changed me alot (altho i don't like to admit it)..even tho i tried to cling onto my ideals very hard..i just gave up eventually because i ended up suffering more then was good. Its unfortunate to see what the dreamers in this society go trough..so many grow up with great ideals but this society is either fit in or just die (or join a commune!)
I used to live in a mobile home park that was almost like a commune. The minute you step outside your trailer, you were with your neighbors. We shared the land. You could plant a few flowers or a tomato bush next to your trailer, but otherwise the land was for everyone to walk on, to play on. We dammed up the creek and that was our swimming hole. We had no paid "security guy", we just gathered together when there was a problem. Those who wanted to could pray at the groundskeepers house on Sunday. There was a girl among us whose parents were not providing for her, so we each gave her little chores (if she agreed to them) so she could buy her own food and some of the women looked out for her other needs. When we needed to do laundry, whoever had gas in his/her car would drive and the rest of us would contribute a little gas money and we'd drive the seven miles to wash our clothes. As for artists, I have been to a couple of small towns that have an artist community. There's no commune, but there is community in such a setting. Some people prefer to go home to their own personal space every night. At one point in my life, personal space was not affordable, so I found a mobile home park where people loved one another and rough behavior would get you kicked out.
that sounds utopic, i have been in nepal and i saw the advantages of little wealth, it was there like you described in the mobile home park..but i think its also alot of suffering. If i hear my father's stories about what they went trough during the very cold winters, shortage of food and all.
Except for that little girl whose parents did not have their act together, none of us went hungry and as soon as we learned her situation, we made sure that she was fed too. Your dad had true hardship. By American standards, I was poor and we always had to figure out ways to get by without money. But for the most part we were very happy.
Would it be better if we could improve the world for everyone? Yes.... Absolutely... Simple fact is though (which I think you will find is related to why you say society has changed you) that not everybody wants the world changed, some don't care one way or another, some are just users, abusers and predators. Now, I will sort of agree with part of your idea that it shouldn't be about improving things for a select few, when that selection is based on random or isolationist ideas... However, when that critera for selection, is simply in picking people who will willing do the jobs that need to be done for it to work for everyone, it is a completely separate and necessary thing. The isolationist idea that you have... well from a point of view from the 60s, there was no real other choice... They were headed back to the land, back to nature... there were no cells phones or satellite internet, hell in most places that had communes spring up there werent even any wires... If you come across a place that shuns outside contact today though, and says things like "we don't allow cell phones" or a community computer is available every so often, but you can't use your own... then in my opinion anyway, it would be best to stay away. There is no need to be isolated even if you are remote... It's sorta funny about GG mentioning the whole trailer park thing, because it has crossed my mind many many times that a lot of smaller trailer parks are pretty much the current end result of the desire for a communal life style for most.
Intentional communities are not for everyone, but they can benefit everyone. When done right, they bring talented creative people together to be a hothouse of ideas. Countless people come for weekend seminars, or short-term internships and carry new skills and ideas back to their homes. I can't think of any reason for an intentional community to block all access to the outside world. Sounds cultish or like mind control when they start talking like that. The most inward-looking community I have ever heard of , a monastery of Cistercian monks east of Atlanta has a well-developed public outreach. It is one thing to try to strike a balance between times of contemplation and public contact, but total isolation? Not good! These monks are never that isolated. I am a big supporter of most intentional communities, but it is wise to look before you leap. Check them out and see how much freedom of thought they allow, make sure there is no personality cult centered around the leader (who must not be questioned).
You don't need to go any further then some of the other posts in this very form. I can't at the moment remember which one it was that this particular part comes from, but there is, or at least was a link to it, along with some info... None of this will of course be word for word, but it is what stuck in my mind... Part of their 'communal' living was that nobody owned anything of their own. Anything that you did own, you either turned over to the community, giving up all claims to it, or you found a way to store it off property and weren't allowed to use it while you were a member. If you had residual income from a previous experience in life... investments, royalties or such... you either put them into a trust and didnt use them in any way while a member, or you turned them over to the community. There was as public computer there, that was on an when available status, with no assurances of actually getting on it. Cell phones, as personal possesions, were not allowed... They were to be either turned off and disposed of, put into storage, or turned over to the community... In exchange for all this, the community took care of your needs, and gives you something like 40$ a week... That is just ONE of many many examples of such things you will find if you wander through the posts here...
Tom, if you found an example of a closed commune that was into mind control you are only making a case for not joining that particular commune. By the way, storing personal property off-site sounds like a good way to protect your assets from appropriation. No misunderstandings that way.
Just what is it that you thought I was trying to make a case for? As for IF I found such... How about you spend some time reading through this forum? You may be shocked at how easy it is to find examples just like that... or the opposite side of it (people trying to find a place where everything is done for them). Also... that last part... I just don't know how to respond to that... 100% of everything that we have (including our time) here, goes into this place... How do you consider it sharing if you were to come here, store everything you had somewhere else and just put in time... Perhaps you misunderstood what my beef with the example... When someone comes here... what they bring here, is theirs... its theirs when they bring it, its theirs when they use it, it's theirs when they share it... and if they leave, it will still be theirs as they take it away... Any other idea will (not may) leave one or the other party getting screwed. As for the way it should be done... If someone wants to communicate, we have a wireless network that reaches across our property. Plus there is some cellular network coverage (and its getting better shortly) as well as a land line high speed internet. When people come here, they do so as individuals... not as followers or sheep or employees... What they own, they own... what they earn, they earn... and yes, what bills they incur, they also pay for... Because that's what INDIVIDUALS working together, do... They work for their own benefit in a manner that also helps others... Not they work for the benefit of others at their own expense.
