Genetic disposition, and non sexually oriented metrosexuality.

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Acting feminine has nothing to do with a supposed "gay gene".
What are you basing this attribution on? Gender stereotypes? What is "feminine" behavior?
If you find yourself emulating women, there could be many possible explanations for that, but I think you would find your answer within the realm of psychology rather than genetics.

Also, quick genetics lesson because your wording kind of bugged me. If sexual orientation is indeed determined in part genetically, and a "gay allele" exists, it would be either dominant or recessive in everyone, not just in your case. It's the gene itself that is considered dominant/recessive. If it were recessive, it would only be "expressed" in a homozygous genotype.

 

i think sexual preference/orientation is part of personality. i dont believe in the gay gene. personality just bridges everything from how we portray our orientation, how choices and behavior changes it, genetic dispositions, how environment changes it, and how genetics shape it. in your case, your "metrosexuality" is just part of your personality. as is anyone's sexuality is just personality.

 

dont care

 

don't care

 

Really? So then what "physical attributes and body structure" are feminine and masculine? If you mention anything besides genitalia and secondary sex characteristics, then you've done nothing but become ensnared within gender stereotypes.
No, I don't see what you are talking about as "acting like a fag" or a drag queen. I know exactly what you mean.
I've never suggested that homosexuality is purely psychological, but I'm also not going to sit here and use pseudo-science to support any possible genetic causes.

Oh I'm sorry, it's just hard not to correct you when your logic is basically


"huuurrrr deeerff, my ungle iz gay but I'm not but I act feminine so my gay gene is recesseive duur"

 

psh

 

I will now proceed to fuck off.

 

I believe more that a straight guy acting feminine would have more to do with producing either higher levels of estrogen or lower levels of testorone and what ever secondary gender hormone chemicals there may be. The enviornment obviously plays a huge role, now guys are being marketed these very groomed metro looks.

The case of David Reimer illustrates that gender identity very well has a strong genetic component but that is only one case. look up David Reimer if you care to know what I'm talking about.

 

The other end of the spectrum, hyper masculine male and hyper feminine female homosexuals is something the vast vast majority of society is totally blinded to.

In a way they are right there in front of you face, you can look them up on the net, you can see them in the clubs, the big hairy muscly ones in leather are right there in the parades alongside the twinks in pink tutus

And yet everyone else still jumps to gay male can only mean feminine, including a lot of homosexuals, the researchers do it, will talk about feminization of the brain, look for causality of feminine traits in the genome or prenatal biology

We are not going to complete the puzzle until we work out why everyone pretends half of the pieces are invisible

 

I personally don't think its a puzzle we should really rush to complete, but I'm not homosexual so I dunno. I mean it takes time, funding and participants to conduct thorough scientific research and I think there are so many mental illnesses and diseases we know little about and how to properly treat/cure that this issue of gays necessarily acting feminine should definitely take a back seat. Its interesting to me in a curiousity sense but really does not seem it should be that important of an issue to me.

 

I remember reading the book: As Nature Made Him. A very tragic story. And David Reimer's life is proof (IMO) that gender is much more complex than female/male. I mean, someone can look like a girl - yet really be a boy. David was forced to live as a girl, but he always felt like a boy. And no amount of social conditioning, ever made him feel like he was meant to be female. Deep down (in his heart), he always knew something was very wrong. Anyway, the book is an awesome read, and teaches us much about gender identity and roles.

QP

 

I totally agree with neodude that to equate femininity/masculinity with gender stereotypes isnt a very wise thing to be doing. Even worse to associate such things with homosexuality. There are many gay men who dont act girly in the slightest, but you never hear about them, only the camp ones. Gender stereotypes, are to a certain extent at least, societal constructs, and nothing to do with gender whatsoever. Though are differences in brain structure between men and women, so the differences between the sexes are more than just the physical attributes.

Gender identity is an entirely seperate thing from either gender stereotypes, or homosexuality. There is also strong scientific evidence that suggests that in some cases at least, the brain structure in transsexuals more closely resembles the brain of the opposite sex, rather than their apparent birth sex which was assigned on external physical attributes alone. This is key, because many males straight and gay, act in so-called "feminine" ways, yet do not identify themselves as being female. And the same is true for many women that display so-called "masculine" behaviours. This is further evidence that gender stereotypes often have nothing to do with gender itself at all.

The case of David Reimer does add further weight to the idea that gender identity is dictated by genetics and brain structure. There was no way he could have known he was born with a penis, because he was only a young baby when the accident happened and the decision to raise him as female was made. He knew he was male because his brain was telling him he was, even though he had no knowledge of being born physically male. He just knew it was wrong that he was being treated as a female. I myself, was born mainly female genetically, but mistakenly raised as male because of having ambiguous genitalia at birth. I knew right from my very first memories that I was female, and how frustrating and painful it was that I was being treated like a male. I do have a girly side to me, but Ive also always enjoyed things that have traditionally been seen as "masculine". But I never saw that as a sign of me being masculine, or male. Just a girl who enjoyed those things. Or a tomboy, to use a more specific term.

Gender stereotypes, at least in general, have very little to do with gender itself.

 

This is a good post but the name calling stops or I shut the whole thing down!

Common respect is far too uncommon and it needs to happen where ever we interact.
I really like having the thoughts and ideas of straight and gay folks in a healthy debate. It's how we all, gay and straight, need to be thinking...inclusively not as seperate but equal...that idea dies a long time ago.

 

to me, Reimer's case proves that gender actually is that black and white: either male or a female. if it weren't Money would have been at least partly successful in his attempt to bring up a boy as a girl. transsexuality too, is proof that gender is black and white, otherwise transsexuals wouldn't insist on sex reassignment. they would be able to live in between, identifying as opposite sex to the body they were born with. but they can't, they can't change the gender they feel they belong to. it's immutable.

while gender is so polar, it's the personality that can be in between. unfortunately the people and the society have created this huge set of personality traits that are viewed as either masculine or feminine. those traits though have nothing to do with physical gender itself, they can appear in both men and women. but because of the stereotypes our culture has produced, those traits are still seen as part of and integral to gender so this also creates a lot of confusion about the conception of gender where it really shouldn't.

Reimer's case, of course, is horrible. to read that any parents or doctors think they have a right to change or impose their will on the sex of the child (their own or not, makes no difference) who can't speak up for himself is disgusting. the whole story is disgusting. to think that our culture has imprinted such a twisted perception of gender into the brains of some people that an artificial interference is perceived as being better than a temporary uncertainty, that a healthy boy who gets his penis destroyed, must according to them definitely be reassigned based on possibly having an easier life because his genitalia is now more closer to that of female is absurd. it's ridiculous. how such an idea even crosses a human mind? to play around with human beings like that. how can a man do that to another potential male? i don't get it. it just makes me utterly disgusted with these people.

 

What you describe sounds like it has more to do with this than it does with sexual orientation

"The anima and animus in Carl Jung's school of analytical psychology, are the two primary anthropomorphic archetypes of the unconscious mind, as opposed to both the theriomorphic and inferior-function of the shadow archetypes, as well as the abstract symbol sets that formulate the archetype of the Self. The anima and animus are described by Jung as elements of his theory of the collective unconscious, a domain of the unconscious that transcends the personal psyche. In the unconscious of the male, it finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.

The anima (animus) can be identified as the totality of the unconscious feminine psychological qualities that a male possesses; or the masculine ones possessed by the female. It is an archetype of the collective unconscious and not an aggregate of father or mother, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles or teachers, though these aspects of the personal unconscious can influence for good or ill the person.

Because man's sensitivity must often be repressed, the anima is one of the most significant autonomous complexes of all. It is said to manifest itself by appearing in dreams. It also influences a man's interactions with women and his attitudes toward them, and vice versa for females and the animus. Jung said that "the encounter with the shadow is the 'apprentice-piece' in the individual's development...that with the anima is the 'masterpiece'"[1]. Jung viewed the anima process as being one of the sources of creative ability."

 

How right he is, Carl- the anima is the hardest to control complex archetype in a mans life, its Kali aspect being so expressive in our times.

 

Well, saying that gender is black and white isnt accounting for the people who say they do identify as both sexes. The fact that those people exist suggests that gender is not black and white. These are exceptions to the rule though, and generally speaking, I think gender is black and white. Just not black and white in the way that the vast majority of the general public views it. Gender (not gender stereotypes) is a complex mix of genetics, chromosomes, and brain structure. These things are not always in harmony with each other though, hence the existence of people like me. The one thing that is certain, that while I do think gender is black and white, it is a far more complex thing than most people imagine it is.

This is pretty much what I said in my previous post. While as I stated there are differences in brain structure between men and women, most personality traits that are assigned as "feminine" and masculine" are merely societal constructs, and nothing to do with gender itself. Just because the vast majority of us are conditioned from birth to believe these personality traits are an intrinsical part of gender, does not mean that they are an intrinsical part of it. Though we should not be fooled by that social conditioning, most people are. Hence why many personality traits are wrongly applied as being integral to only one gender's makeup.

The case of David Reimer, is actually not that different, if different at all, to what countless people born with intersex conditions were subjected to after birth. Most intersex conditions are not life threatening. The surgery is mainly carried out for purely cosmetic reasons and to "ensure that the child can integrate into society normally, and not be singled out for bullying by other kids". These doctors probably think they are doing what's in the child's best interests, but so many people including myself, feel that decision to forcefully and surgically assign a gender without their knowledge has ruined their lives. It is horrible and despicable that such invasive, and life changing surgery can be carried out without the patients' consent. Or even knowledge. But I guess it was seen as a case of: "What they dont know cant harm them".

The thing about the David Reimer case which mirrors cases such as mine is Money, like many other doctors, believed that because gender is purely physical, then he could easily be manipulated into believing he was a girl. Just like some doctor thought it would be "easier" and "better" for me, if I was raised as male. Unfortunately, it is not just the prescence of a vagina or a penis that makes someone male or female. Something which is now completely irrefutable.

 

the kali-yuga is upon us maaaan!
xD xD xD

 

What I was talking about is not limited to personality, nor do your feelings about the world and yourself contribute to accurate knowledge of the human psyche. Something I was not doing, despite the fervency against my ideas. To think even personality is entirely independent of biological factors, doesn't seem accurate. That's why we have ideas like genetic predisposition, which is something that was entirely overlooked in discussion on this thread.

That doesn't mean there isn't an abundance of unjust stereotyping taking place with gender, but there are so many different traits in the composition of a person from the physical to personality that lie in the natural order of ourselves.

I erased my original ideas as the result of the obvious misinterpretation of them by people in this thread. And because the degree to which people express their opinion as fact and ignoring something as just an idea, thinking also they are qualified to determine the accuracy of such ideas.