Over 17 years happily married... then this happened...

This is realllly long, but I sure hope at least a couple of you will read this and give me your input.

I've been with my husband for over 17 years. For the most part, our relationship has been better than great. For awhile though, we talked about including another couple, sexually, for a night of fun... something that my husband has pushed for a long time. I finally told him that I wasn't willing to jeopardize our relationship, by opening ourselves up to someone else's possible drama.

Last month, I had to leave town for my Grandfather's funeral. When I came back, I was checking old email accounts for hosting info for one of my websites. In one of our old, rarely used accounts, I found an email he sent to a couple, in response to an ad on craigslist. The ad was no longer available to see, but the title was included in the subject line... Couple for fun - MW4M (man & woman looking for a man.) In his response, he made it a point to say that he was alone and his wife is out of town. There was no response from the couple. I know at this point, I should have just confronted him about this... but I knew that he would twist the story to avoid conflict. Obviously, at this point I'm questioning his loyalty... so I decided to send a reply, as the woman from the ad.

hi john,
we're very sexually openminded, looking for a very discrete situation. i've got the high sex drive in this relationship.dh works alot and goes out of town on bussiness every couple months. for now i'd really like to find someone to step in while hes gone. i'm open to try most anything but would like to start with a secret quicky while dh is at work, maybe lunch and a blowjob and see what happens from there? since you're happily married, i think i can count on you being discrete. i'd want to keep dh out of it until i really know what i'm after. let me know if you want to trade pics and see if the physical attraction is there. if our first meeting goes well maybe we can talk about bringing in the spouses or decide to just stick to fun lunches. would love to hear more about you.
ml

his response:
Good Morning Marie,

Thank you for the reply, and I apologize for not responding sooner. This is not my main e-mail and missed this response. The ideas you mentioned would be fantastic. As far as discretion goes, I own a local business so we would have to play under the radar so to speak! I am an adventurist person as life goes, and love seeing live shows and road trips. Sexually, I have been called insatiable many times from my wife, and have yet to find a limit to the amount that curbs my desire. I love sex, all kinds, and different senarios are what help to keep thing interesting. This is a bit of a problem in our relationship because I always want it, and her not all the time. Although, when things get hot, she is a firecracker in and out of the bed! She is not Bi, but has been with another lady before we met and said she liked it. I have never been with two women at once, but believe I have the stamina to bring both to a heavy, wet climax.As for that, I am not Bi either but would love to DP my wife or you if that is something you are into, so would not care if occasional contact was to happen. I am a very laid back, love to party and smile late into the evening kind of person. I am responsible with the rules of life, but have been known to bend a few I guess like you, am just seeing what may arise, with the hope of all having a real good time in the end. I would like to trade a pic or two, head or body, as you said to see if the physical is there.

Look forward to hearing back,
John


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The 3rd sentence really bothers me. "The ideas you mentioned would be fantastic." None of the ideas mentioned, included me, except that spouses may be included later. There were a few back and forth after this... and yes, he mentioned me in all of them... but that really doesn't make me feel any better.
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Here's how it wrapped up:
John, very cute, how about a body shot? phone number? you up for the 1 on 1?

(Unfinished draft) Unchartered water here! I have a body shot and a number, 1on 1 should be mandatory before we all agree. I will let her know all she is missing and expect you to do the same.
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When I finally confronted him, he blew up. Other than saying that my wounds are self inflicted, he wouldn't discuss this with me for nearly 2 weeks. When we finally were able to discuss it somewhat, he just kept saying that I shouldn't have fucked with him. Somewhere in there, he tried to say that he wasn't going to hook up with this girl alone, that he was stringing things along in an effort to have her agree to include me. At one point, he also said, that since he was actually talking to me, he can't get in trouble for things that he said in the email, since she was a fictional character. ??? Also, he said that he thought 1on1 meant me and him... and her and her man (i thought this would be 2on2). This is pretty much where we left it. He says he didn't do anything wrong... and that I fucked up by trying to play a game with him. So, I've just been letting this one lay, which is great to him, but it's all still bothering the hell out of me. I know if I bring it up and try to get some closure on this, he's going to become instant-ass.

Am I missing something? Am I overreacting? Did I read too deeply into this?

I love my husband dearly and we have a beautiful family with 3 kids. Is it best for me to just leave this one alone... or am I setting myself up for bigger problems in the future?

 

sounds like you both kind of fucked up. seems to me that you should have either intervened right away, or else waited longer to see what his actual intentions are. by stringing him along a little bit and then confronting him when you did, you were being as deceptive as he was, and you stopped short of having enough information to know if his intention was cheating or just working toward getting you involved. looks like he was trying to cheat though, just based on the info presented here.

sorry, i really don't have any advice. i don't think you should just leave it alone, but i also don't know where to go from here.

 

Thanks for your input, underwear

I definitely accept *some* fault here.

 

thats pretty fucked up on your part.
i dont understand when someone "tests someone's loyalty". thats bullshit, you set him up for failure and you played a pointless game with him thats only brought conflict!

as for his interest in the one on one, i think its mainly because it'll bridge into a foursome. he just wanted to get involved with something new and considering you may seem a bit stand-offish to the idea (?) that maybe he needs to get a new nut off. you also set him up for failure in the initial message to him by arranging a one on one meeting. a more balanced "test of loyalty" would be simply waiting for what he'd say to what he wants to do. plus he always kept you mentioned. the majority of that first message is about you.

what you need to do is apologize, because that is just cruel, and start being honest with him. also consider this foursome idea because he'd like it, and just stay honest with him.

 

I don't see how he's not at fault here... he responded to an ad when I went out of town. He knew I didn't want to get involved with other people. Even if he were to have done a 1 on 1 with the intention of getting a 4some together, that's cheating! As I said, I do accept *some* fault... but I didn't start this. He gave me a reason to question him... so I did. I truly did expect a different outcome, though.

 

i understand the reason to question him, but you didn't verbally question him, you avoided confronting him about it and played a game.
yeah it would be cheating with a 1 on 1, but the fact that you set him up for failure in the first place is kinda fucked up. and the fact that he never actually met up with someone says something also.
and i wouldn't necessarily say he started this, because someone can consider that you started it by complicating the situation and bringing the actual conflict.

seems like he respects you greatly but would like to adventure a bit. what are your thoughts on actually going for a foursome or maybe at least a threesome with another guy? if i were in your situation that'd be a major turn on lol
if you adventure with him, he doesnt have a reason to be sneaky or distrustful.

 

I certainly respect your opinions, although I don't agree. Because of the fact that he contacted a couple who was looking for a 3rd... while I was out of town... I do think he was looking to cheat with this couple. That's where this problem began. I looked back at the gmail log, and it shows that he checked this email account several times a day, until I came back.

No, I didn't question him right away. There was way too much room to lie... I thought by responding myself by email, I would get a better understanding of what he was truly up to. Nope, it didn't work. Just gave me more questions.

I've seriously considered including other people, because I knew it was something that he really wanted to try. After much thought, I decided that I really don't think a night of fun is worth the risk. We've got 17 years and a family at stake. There are SO many things that can go wrong. Even if we could keep things drama free on our end, we're tying ourselves to other people, and their drama. Funny though, the drama happened anyways.

 

I think there are no winners or losers here, or one is right and one is wrong.
I know what you mean about avoiding confrontation-that's the way I live 24/7.

In this situation, however I think you should have talked to your husband, or screamed yelled and stomped your feet at him. This was not a cool game to play. You say your marriage is better than great, so I guess you Gr8ful will have to make that decision.

Sounds like you have a beautiful family, and yes he really messed up, yes REALLY messed up, but you can't change that now. You have to make the choice if you can put this behind you, and move forward with your previously better than great marriage or keep it in its current limbo state in which nobody is happy.

I think you missed your chance to call him on it by taking it as far as you did.
Of course this is all just my opinion, but I would put the swinging lifestyle on the shelf for a while so you can figure things out without the added pressure of getting another couple involved. If you choose the happily married route then I would ask your husband if he could wait x amount of time before discussing it further.

I hope that helped even the tiniest bit.

 

Sounds like the intention was cheating when he answered the craigslist ad. And now that you have confronted him about it, it will never be over. When he became standoffish he was admitting guilt. Once a cheater always a cheater.

 

Thank you. Yes, we both screwed up.

Yup, limbo state sucks. I'd love to get back on track of happily married... I just can't figure out how to get back there.

 

that was definitely not the way to find an understanding imo.
imo i think you need to apologize to him.

the reason why you aren't going for group sex is making more drama it seems, probably much more than if you two knew another couple. like i said, if you were with him involving sexual intentions, theres no reason for him to be sneaky or distrustful.
and i just don't think having a fun night with another couple will bring much drama, like at all..

 

Not necessarily-he never actually cheated and we will never know if he would have gone through with it or not. So I don't think we can label him a cheater, but rather a little too over-curious.

That's also why I said that Gr8ful has to decide if she can put this behind her or not.

He should not have even been cruising CL, but he did-got caught-Gr8ful prolonged the situation by playing games, but she has to decide how things proceed.

 

I'm pretty sure the intention was to cheat, although part of me just wants to believe that he was just getting off on the fantasy of cheating, without the intention of actually hooking up.

Yup, I'm confused.

As far as I know, he's never actually cheated on me... so I don't think the "always a cheater" thing applies here. At least I hope not.

 

You seriously don't think he should apologize to me?

So, if I had just confronted him right away, would he owe me an apology? How does this work... I voided his response to the CL ad, when I decided to respond as the person who placed the ad? None of this would have even come about if he would have just found a tube to beat it to, until I came back.

 

Sure it would be cheating. and you suggest cheating and impersonated someone to lure him to cheat.

He wasen't doing the right thing. And you set him up to do the wrong thing. You both fucked up. Life goes on. You should be apologising for that, and he should obviously not be cheating... He wants to keep things interesting, and as he himself said, you're letting things stagnate... if you don't like games with other people, figure out something between the two of you that he'd like.

If you drove him and his advances off, he was going to be looking to let off steam, and he did try to cheat, at least at first. So you should have confronted him.

 

This is what I think.

He had a fantasy that he really wanted to fulfill, you were the one that put your foot down and said 'no.' Is that fair? Honestly I don't think so: if you didn't want to be involved, that's your choice, but it should be his choice as well as to what he wants to do. It's just sex and from his e-mails, it seems to me that he loves you and wants to include you. You said yourself that he always mentioned you. He didn't try to hide the fact that he was going to cheat.

Now that being said, did you read his original reply to the ad? The ad just called for a male, not a couple. Maybe that's why they didn't respond: because he mentioned you from the beginning. However, maybe they didn't reply because he mentioned that this would be behind his wife's back: but from the concurring e-mails, it seems that his main concern was you.

I'm sure he's frustrated because he wants to please you, but he wants to experience different things. Consider therapy. Try opening your mind to the possibility. 17 years is a long time, and it's good to mix it up a bit, I'm sure. He still seems very much in love with you: you're not risking your relationship trying something new, you're risking it by fearing change and limiting your husband in what he wants to try.

 

I don't think he deserves a free pass.

She has obviously thought about the 4some thing for some time now. Maybe even 17 years. She has come to her conclusion she doesn't want to do it. I know she mentioned the drama of another couple, maybe that is masking the fact that she just doesn't want to do it.

Let's say she has wanted to use a strap-on and fuck him since way back when. He came to the conclusion he doesn't want anything up there. Does that give her the right to go to CL and post an ad for someone to let her fuck them with a strap-on? No.
Sex is sex, but then again it isn't just sex.

I still think that Gr8ful made matters worse than they needed to be, and is not free of any responsibility in this, but doesn't no still mean no?

 

Yeah, that's exactly right.

I don't know the couple involved so this may not apply to them, but it seems to me that OP has an insecurity in that she fears that if he sleeps with another woman, it'll ruin something. She needs to have trust in her partner that he knows what he wants: which is her but also something else.

He definatly needed to be open about it: it wasn't right to do that behind her back. But moving past that and concentrating on what can be done now to solve the base issue: trust needs to be established. That is lacking. Obviously the two of them can't just talk to each other because both are going behind each other's back.

 

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I do so much to keep things from getting stagnate. I'm willing to do pretty much anything, between the 2 of us. I'm far from a sexual prude and do things with him that would make most women run. I just don't want to risk our family by bringing in outsiders. So, while there's a lot that I will do, just like everyone else, I do have a line... so far the only thing he's been denied is bringing other people in. I've compromised by doing things that I really didn't want to do, his compromise should be not forcing something that I truly feel will hurt our relationship.

 

Understand. But you may feel differantly if another man was to do "things" in a differant way than your husband-maybe MUCH differantly and dare I say--better? Wouldn't necessarily mean you'd immediately run off with him. Same goes for hubby. But no one should have to do something they don't want to do,so I guess that's where it stays. Just remember--dead is a long time.