The dark side of communal life...myth or facts?? and other questions

Right now I live around people who's spirits are dead...

Example...I just left the gas station, some lady had pulled up in a brand new Chrysler, one of these...



She was probablly in her mid to late 50's...but this was her shining jewel...

When I looked at her and the car, it meant absolutly nothing to me...and i'm thinking to myself, as hard as times are or could become, that's the best way you can think of to invest your money? in payments for who knows how many years, and insurance to go with it?
It just seemed like a waste to me, but that's what life, or the meaning of life has come down to, to many...things, stuff, material....

Well what kind of person is she when she's not in the car?

That's what matters to me...

And it's that kind of shallowness I'm trying to escape...my life is worth more than that...

Ye sure I could get some job, like the one I just resigned from and hated...(it's the scheduale I hated and what it was doing to me) but I could get another one just like it...and just accumilate money...while sacrificing my soul and spirit and others...(although having money does allow you to help others to a certain extent)...

But I want more...I want what I had when I was a kid, a child, and money had nothing to do with the best years of my life...

It was the people I was around, the relationships, the laughter, the exploration...
All that, as an adult, has been stripped away from most of us by this system...

I once again want to sit by the campfire and learn...

 

Most people think of communism when they hear the term "commune". Thats because people are generally idiots, lol. Very close-minded. I felt batty for years because I've dreamed of having a commune since I was 18 or 19 years old. I was lucky to meet a group of people that all have the same goal. it doesn't make me feel like a crazy lone wolf anymore. although, if i didn't have friends to work towards a common goal with, i would probably show up at someone elses commune. I have a huge distaste for most of society and I won't be genuinely happy until I can drop out of society and wake up to nature and self sufficiency every day.

thats an interesting way of looking at America, and true too. The only difference is we don't get to decide where the pool of resources goes, which essentially makes us slaves.

exactly. Humans have always gravitated towards communal life. Only in modern times has such an emphasis on individualism been placed. I think getting back to communal living is essentially getting back to how humans are meant to live to ensure survival and harmony with our surroundings.

at the end of one's life most people report that material possessions mean nothing in terms of defining the success of life. When one is about to die it is always relationships and joys shared with other people that matter the most.

surround yourself with those people and your life will be a success.

if you're really interested in communal living there are communes all over the US that you could probably visit for a while. I plan on visiting one a couple of hours from where I live whenever I get some time off work to get a good idea of the work involved.

 

In my opinion,the capitalists just keep stalling and resurrecting the system time and again to keep from facing the inevitable. Final collapse. The shit will come down eventually and the more distance from a money based existance you can be,the safer you will be. Meliai,it sounds like you and your friends have a good chance at making/doing something worthwhile. As regards friends,maybe this relates: "trust your mother,but always cut the cards"---------Joel

 

scratcho

You are correct...even church going people who preach about end times and mark of the beast stuff...how many of them are actually ready to depart the mainstream for the hills???

Very few...for although they, church people, rail against the system, they're as dependent upon it as any one else...

And it's that love of the physical, material comfort, stuff, that will end up trapping many in the end...

 

Exactly. One person/s greed or power play can and has(read history) destroyed many a great undertaking. Like any business, church, movement the foundation will determine the integrity and potential of the structure. The foundation or principles should protect and guide the group.

The member's should know from the start the groups principles and mission. No surprises.
The group should have roles for the brightest and those with leadership skills. It's important that leadership roles be dynamic. No one person or group making all the decisions. Elect different people for various roles on a rotating basis. The details would be in the bylaws. Personal and communal growth will be inevitable. People attracted to communal living don't want traditional 'leaders' or authority figures. Elected people would be 'serving' and protecting the mission of the group and not 'leaders'.

 

Do you realize that you are making two opposing statements here?

Do you want roles defined that go to those that have the skills and most likely to succeed at them (the first part of having roles for the brightest and with leadership skills)..

Or

Do you want it to be dynamic in which the only criteria is popularity (the second part)...

Or did you have something else in mind when you typed this?

 

Rent. Depending on the groups resources and principles the land or house may be small or barren at first.

If a mortgage or lease is involve incorporation might be the answer. Non-profit status would aid in grants and loans.

That's one of the reason's a one owner commune might not be a the best idea.
Tom, in your situation selling shares might be a way of getting over the empirical structure.

Exactly! Change is hard. A commitment to communal living with little idea of what the future holds is scary. Thats why, I think, having a well thought out mission and guiding principles is essential. The best candidate is probably young w/out responsibilities and unfortunately little material resources.

Yeap, there are lots of those types that are attracted to dictator type communes and they do well. Same dynamic is seen in relationships.

The communes principles and by-laws should protect against power plays. Of course crimes that threaten the groups health would be a reason to ban.

These types of issues would be easily dealt with by the principles and the group mission.
I dont see a well developed commune will be full of problems but will be healthy and growing.

 

Well said...

 

i think that you could have the perfect communal setup but as long as people aren't willing to overcome their own greed and selfishness then it will ultimately become subject to the same failure that our society at large is subject to. having a code or set of rules to abide by is only going to cause more conflict within the community. to be truly free one has to do it out of their own free will. if a person does not choose to live in accordance with the commune of their own free will then placing rules into effect in order to make them cooperate is only going to cause deterioration.

one of the best ways to gauge whether a commune is sucessful is to ask: can this commune bridge the generation gap? will it flourish to the extent that it was intended even without it's founders?

there is so much to be said about communal living, but when it comes to this subject wisdom needs to be tempered with a healthy amount of experience. when the walls of society come down human nature shows it's true form. one simply can't account for everything until you are actually there.

this article played a healthy role in my interest in communal life:

My Elusive Dream

Sir Thomas More had his tongue in his cheek when he wrote about Utopia. He was kidding when he described his perfect island where everything was ideal. The very name, utopia, means no place -- the nonexistent land of man's dreams. But no one told us that utopia wasn't real. Even if they had, we wouldn't have believed them because deep inside we all wanted that idealistic life to be real. Somewhere along the line we decided that utopia must be possible. So with all ardor and enthusiasm, we made our plans, dreamed our dreams, and set out to find a place for our own free society. We could not find an island like in More's 16th century dream, but we settled for something a little bit less -- Haight Ashbury!

What magic these two words had in our minds! A society of free young spirits founded on love, peace, and freedom, where equality and fraternity could just be! From far and near we grabbed our backpacks and left home. We dropped out of school and hit the road.

By air, foot, bikes, or hitching, our 20th century exodus had begun. Our Moses was Timothy Leary. Our Promised Land was San Francisco across the Golden Gate.
When we arrived, we were accepted. No one asked any questions. No one made any demands. No one was watching. No one had to prove anything. We were just ourselves and everyone was happy. We were really living our dreams. We could come and go as we pleased. We could wear what we pleased. There were no deadlines, no grades, no projects, no points to score.

We did not care about money, no one was trying to impress, material things didn't matter. Only people mattered. Easy alliances were formed. Love was free. No demands. No commitment. Old taboos were ignored, barriers knocked down and spirits were high. No one was killing anybody, and people were beautiful.

It happened in Monterey, June 1967. The first Rock festival was born, giving birth to Woodstock, Isle of Wight, Altamont, Atlanta, and an endless procession ever since! All day and night the music rocked and rolled on & on. We listened with remarkable fortitude for days. At the festivals we could sense what seemed to be the endless love we had always hoped for. In fact, a revolution of love was beginning. We could feel it everywhere. The world would never be the same. We were determined to make this hope, this life, this togetherness last forever.

Joan Baez called it togetherness, and she was right. Men and women throughout all generations have been looking for that bond of love that would make them one. The desire for an end to estrangement and hostility runs deep in the human soul. The toughest nut will crack under the right pressure and the hardest heart will yield to love, understanding, and a little kindness. The most estranged and antagonistic person will respond to interest and concern, once his suspicions have been allayed. This togetherness is what we wanted and what we thought we had found.

This was the life of the flower children, the beautiful people. If we needed anything, we would just ask someone. If they had it, they would share it. If they didn't, no one thought any less of them. We panhandled to meet pressing needs and sold our art to the curious. But, it was the curious from plastic mainstream America that began to undermine our utopia. Tourists arrived by the thousands. They looked at us hippies the way kids look at giant pandas in the zoo.

"Look, a real live hippie."

"He's got nice eyes."

"He stinks. Let's buy some beads."

These sensation-seeking middle-class American tourists with their pudgy stomachs swamped the serenity and devoured the distinctiveness of our youthful dream on Haight Street. As time went on, we flower children become more and more the center of attention and a phenomenon the media quickly exploited. Things started getting crazy as more and more people came to San Francisco and the good vibes produced by Orange Sunshine began to give way to paranoia and an increased fear of 'The Man.' The Buffalo Springfield captured this sense with these words from their famous song, For What It's Worth:

Paranoia strikes deep.
Into your life it will creep.
It starts when you're always afraid.
Step out of line the man comes and takes you away.
You better stop now. What's that sound?
Everybody look what's going down!

Old-fashioned greed began to show its ugly head among us, and we began to insist on our rights and our own individualities. It didn't take long for many of us to see what was coming. Heroin and speed dealers moved into the Haight, the riot squad invaded our district, beating anyone they could find, and the utopian state sank in a pool of blood when the killing started. The peace we thought was ours began slipping away as an elusive dream. Like everywhere else and everyone else, we, the love people and peace people, were seeing in ourselves the same rotten seed we thought we'd left back home.

But where could we go and what could we do now? Go back home? No! We had made a few mistakes, but the dream was still attainable. It became clear that the peace we wanted couldn't be found in the city. So we headed for the hills. Alternative people USA! We would do it! There is hope! We will make it! There is true love and true peace! A guru will show us the way! Which one should we follow? Who offers the best vibrations? Everybody seemed to have their own answer, their own separate trip.

As we went down endless roads wherever our own trips led us, there was an increasing sadness growing in our hearts, a sadness brought about because most of our dreams and visions proved to be unattainable. The highs went away and our experiments with community failed.

Then, we began to ask the question, "What is the use of anything at all?" The reality of people living in peace and unity as God intended is what we were looking for. But we needed to know how to find it. Our generation is going mad because we can't find it after thirty years of looking for it. We hated authority because the authority we observed growing up was filled with hypocrisy, prejudice, and glory seeking. We had our fill of the kind of authority that says, "Don't do as I do, but do as I say." What was needed was good authority to make it happen! We needed leaders who could lead us by their example and who wouldn't compromise.

We wanted to conquer the world with love and bring the healing balm of peace to this earth, but there was no foundation, no blueprint to bring our vision into a lasting demonstration. Our love failed.

Some people turned to Jesus in search of this foundation of love. The Jesus of the Jesus People seemed hip enough, but didn't have the power to bring about the life either. We turned on the TV and heard Christian preachers talking about how we should live -- something we knew that they knew nothing about. A life of love and unity is what they promised, but we knew we were not going to get it because those making the promises weren't doing it either. Someone said, "A student will be like his teacher when he is fully trained." So all we could see was another form of Christianity.

So what's the use getting our hopes up in one more empty sermon? Who wants to claim to see like the blind teachers leading us? "If the blind lead the blind, they will both end up in the ditch." Can their Jesus save others when he can't save them? And if they are just saved from hell but not saved from this wicked society, who wants that salvation anyway? We aren't blind! A plastic Jesus who makes his plastic converts comfortable in a plastic society headed for destruction is what we detested and despised. The utter failure of this 'salvation' was the very cause of our rebellion. Their failure to produce the 'utopia' they spoke of is what drove us to Haight Ashbury in the first place!

So now where are we to look and in what place can we find a hope that does not disappoint us? Where is the real love of God that can fill our hearts? Preachers or teachers who promise us that we can know the Source of love and the Author of peace and the meaning of Truth, but are divided among themselves, cannot communicate love, peace, and unity to anyone's conscience. Mere mental concepts are all they can offer since they have a life filled with the same old selfishness and greed that we took to Haight Ashbury.

So where do we go from here? I'm so tired of chasing after rainbows only to find a false light at the end of my journey. How can I ever find my elusive dream?

 

Freedom through more paperwork? LOL

As for selling shares... Why would I put at risk, what is at no risk? That's the part that some people have a really hard time grasping...

You've never seen me say anywhere, that nobody wants to come here... Many, many people have said they wanted to... I purposely chase 99% of them away...

I am not going to share my land with people who are going to cause issues for me... I consider it a good thing when someone who wants to be convinced to come, get convinced otherwise... The people who do come here, will do so because they want what we offer... no more, no less...

Do you really think it would then be wise to on top of being that picky, to say, now, if you want a share, cough up 20k? lol

Seriously, what you are describing, is babylon (normal society)... It is already set up just as you say you wish... it just needs tweaking to be a better fit for your set of rules.

And yes, there are many models of 'communes' that you will find that follow the same pattern...

For people who keep saying they want a different way of life and not having 'leaders' and so forth... you sure do seem to want to be led...

My side... come, work with us, don't harm others, and do as you wish...
Your side... follow the rules under the leadership of the most popular...

Of course, what do I know... It's not like this has been my path for most of my adult life or that I went through different versions of this starting with the 'group consensus' idea and ended up here...

lol

 

I'll read the article shortly, but I wanted to respond to this part...

That line, should be burned into peoples minds....

 

Both!
Leaders will serve and servants will lead.

 

Here's one of the biggest darksides of any of these ideas...

When people toss out meaningless statements as answers to real questions.

Explain this... Only those that are qualified can run for 'office'? Any other idea throws the 'roles' part right out the window... If this is what you mean, then who gets to choose what those qualifications and who meets them? The group? That would be back to a popularity contest... You? That would be back to a dictatorship. A 'select group'? Then you are into elitism...

As for the other option of it just being a popularity contest... You already have that system....

 

Everyone's qualified to be a part of the communes leadership. That's how one grows personally is to take challenges. Remember the principles of the group will not allow the group to fail no matter who's 'in charge'.
Communes should be growing evolving system. Having the same leaders invites stagnation. Growth through change of leadership will allow the servants personal growth and the 'leaders' a chance at practicing humility. Remember the perfect commune is really an experiment. Its a living structure. The group/commune is dynamic as is the individual. New blood in will keep the commune vibrant.

 

Well first off, this is not what you said originally... You did not say, put anyone in power and let them grow and learn... You said;

Which contradicts that it should be done by election from those involved, UNLESS you are going to put qualifications on who is eligible to be in charge.

As for (and note I singled this out and emphasized it...)

It is only an experiment to those who talk about it in theory...

For some, it is real life... and you keep missing this point.

 

Well, this thread went and got pretty crazy.

Are we stilling living in reality, or is this just a cartoony pipe dream now?

By the way, Desos, was that an article from a 12 Tribes paper?
That sounds really familiar.

Edit~
Yeah, I found it now. Were you in the Tribes, or did you pick it up at a concert?

 

i picked it up at a show and then visited with them for a while. learned alot about the whole twelve tribes communities.

although i never joined the community. by the time i left i was a 'special guest.'

i'm still on good terms with them.

 

Happy New Year! Tom, you got it going on! Me too, but only 5 acres to work with. Although I got first rights of refusal on 10 acres next to me. Lands high around here.

It is real life! Its hard as hell building a place. Homesteadings a bitch. At least you have a helper. I'm the only source of income and manager. My sons are of some labor source but they play sports and school so I dont work them to hard. lol

People are doing it more as the economy dives. On Discovery or something theres a show about newby gold miners selling everything and buying equipment and staking a claim in Alaska. A mining commune..hmm. lol

 

I think you completely missed what I was saying...

 

Which communes produce the computer chips, medical drugs and services required for treatment of illnesses, and other products and services that don't exist naturally?