Did pre-Bible humans go to heaven/hell/purgatory?

I ramble on in the above reply.

Here is a verse that I thought demonstrated this: "For if we are willfully sinning after receiving the full knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice concerning sins.” Hebrews 10:26-29

 

I don't think it was automatic. That wouldn't be fair. The body of work(bible) would have to have come into existance before people began to believe in it or be forced to believe Only then would those who believed or yet believe ,could be subjected to its logic or its illogic,depending on one feels about it.

 

The proposition that any document would interpret itself is to not comprehend what written language is.

The content and structure of language is that it consists of symbols and these symbols represent conditions.
What is the substantive measurable difference between very warm and hot?
The fact is that there is no definite measure to either of those terms, speaks to the veracity of the beliefs regarding this subject. The claim is simply not upheld by observable phenomena. The fact is that there are many divergent interpretations, all claiming to be the correct one. This is the evidence apart from the specter of personal conviction.

 

Shakespeare and his writings had an intended meaning and we can find it through study. I believe that the same can be done with the Bible. Many can have many different outlooks on what Shakespeare may have meant, doesn't mean he didn't mean anything by what he said or that we can't find out. You believe there are many different interpretations therefore their cannot be a correct one. Guess that's where we differ though and that's ok.

 

Shakespeare didn't claim divine revelation I don't think. All language is an attempt at communication. Although the particulars of a story can be universally apprehended, their relevance or meaning is not. That is to say that people are inspired by different aspects of a story. Take a poll of favorite plays of Shakespeare and the reviews are mixed.

It is in the way that so many different interpretations are significant to so many different people that I find remarkable. It is not a one size fits all document, but more that almost anyone can find a size that fits, representing the many different sects and traditions of chritianity.

One thing that can be observed is that any belief will find it's witnesses. We see to believe and believe to see.

 

You are correct in pointing out the two possiblities: a slow accretion, or a sudden appearence of souls.

Neither is provable, but both are arguable.

Points towards the accretion theory are that God doesn't appear to interact with the world in distinct interventions (the incarnation being an exception), and it follows the theory of evolution by which God created. Points against it are that then we have the issue of "part of a soul" and the impossibility of a part of a soul (just like part of personhood). Also, the soul is seen as what gives us the image of God, and how can something have part of the image of God within itself.

Points towards the intervention theory are essentially the arguments against the evolution theory, and vice versa.

Overall, I think intervention is the best explanation. It probably was not an Adam and Eve situation, but a group of people who were blessed with souls.

 

He didn't claim divine revelation but the Bible does, even more reason why it should have an intended meaning. Fact is, whenever someone asked Jesus the meaning behind something, he would describe it to them plainly so as to not leave any doubt to it's meaning. The same thing occurs in say the book of Daniel.

That's not to say that everything must be understood in a single day. The letters go on to describe this study process as being babies of Christ; it takes time to learn, so yeah, 'reviews' may differ time from time.

 

It could be said that he was intentionally vague and said on several occasions there were things that even the disciples did not understand. Sometimes he had to revisit things because they didn't get it the first time.

"This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear nor do they understand."

It has been my experience over time that my own understanding has grown or evolved over time, and so the way I relay information and relate to it has changed as we take on the "full armor of christ".

An example would be the statement, "the measure you give is the measure you get".

Well I used to regard this as a quality of linear reciprocity, that is if you do something the effects of that act return to you in time. However a new awareness came at some point and I now see that giving and receiving are not separated in time, that is, giving and receiving are the same truth. That I experience love only when I am loving and it matters not that one love me as I can regard that or not. That when I am in a critical frame of mind, goodness eludes me and when I am grateful I have goodness in abundance. Purification or right action, sinning no more, could be understood as frequency modulation.

The practice of forgiveness has the effect of cultivating an unconditional positive regard for our own experience and what we call our own is only experienced as we give it away.

 

I was not making an argument but was merely pointing out what the Bible says is the answer to the question that was asked.

 

We all had arsouls before souls were issued.......

 

Acorns dream of being trees someday, and praising G-D reaching to the sky..

People breathe the air the Trees make.. The Air dreams of being wind, and it blows..

As G-D proceeded to form man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul...

 

I'm sure humans comforted themselves with other beliefs similar to heaven and hell before any Christian bibles were written.

 

Thanks odon, but we're looking for strictly in-universe explanations here. When someone asks you why all the aliens in Star Trek looked pretty much the same in every episode with the same plastic bumps on their foreheads, the last thing they want to hear cited as an reason is 'budget limitations'...

 

"we're" or you are?

 

Other "beliefs" or other crutches?

 

Everyone has a world model.

 

Both, I guess.

 

G-d needed some substance to make a human? He can whip up animals, fish, etc, out of sweet fuck all, but he needs material before he can manufacture a man? Seems to me that the beasts, birdies, and the fishies are his true spiritual sons.

 

Hang on... according to the myths, didn't God allow his only son to be killed in a particularly nasty way as part of some preordained master plan ?

So how do we know that a parent killing their child is not also part of some God-driven preordained master plan too ?

Every psycho that ever claimed "God told me to do it...". Have we ever considered that maybe he did ?

 

I had the pleasure the other morning to be entertained up close and personal like by 2 starling, 2 crows, 3 sparrows and a bunny rabbit... All these animals were eating food from my dogs bowl.

The bunny was a hanging off to the side, the starlings were fighting with each other as their beaks couldnt break some the dog food. They would toss it. The bunny was getting those. The crows wanted in on the action and one would fight the starlings while the other would take food stand on the fence and eat. They would trade, very precision like .. The sparrows didnt care, it was seem they were in the middle of the bigger birds, eating the crumbs that fell..

all the animals made eye contact with me.. :sunny: