Legitimacy of the bible as a historical document?

It's been said that scripture can be recompiled from simply the quotations of church elders and that the four fold gospels were already chosen prior. The Council of Nicea for instance was a meeting not so much on canon as it was on creed and the Arian controversy (Jesus is not god, etc) and the developing gnostic traditions that were developing. Even as a Christian with Arian leanings, I still wouldn't say that canon was dictated.

 

you got today's news coming through being dictated, controlled ...and biased according to who's in control and where, this is the history of tomorrow filled with lies and deceit in our life times that's being written for our future generations, and it's how its been throughout,

so forgive me for not accepting any form of alteration, interpretation to the original text ..which is not in existence for comparison anymore!

 

Or, if we use the asumption of a single divine power (i.e, God) then it would follow that there are a limited number of interpretations. Only one Church can even claim that type of authority. All the others rely on personal interpretation which waters down the texts efficacy to speak authoritatively. There is wiggle room, and there are multiple meanings within a single selection, but the possibilities for a correct understanding are not limitless.

Mind you, this only work if you accept the first assumption. If you do not then it is just an organization exerting power to control roughly 1-Billion people.

 

The point is that the commandments do not work.

God himself breaks most of them.

Kills, causes lies, breaks his covenants and covets.

We are told to love the sinner and hate the sin while we see God sending those he loves to hell and allowing what he says he hates to flower.

Rhetoric is often useless. So are the commandments.

Regards
DL

 

Originally Posted by animefan48 Well, the reality is most Christians do buy into the trinity doctrine because of persecution of the early Gnostics and non-Trinitarians, and the religious councils were dissenters were forced to agree to a Trinitarian theology. Many Unitarian and Universalist theologies argue that when Jesus said he was the way, he meant that he was an example of how to live to be united/reunited with God. As for the name, God does give other names for himself including the Alpha and Omega, as well as some believe a name that should not be written (or even spoken I believe). Honestly, I think using the name I Am That I Am would just be confusing and convoluted, seriously. I seriously do not believe that it is a continuation of Gnostic/mystical/Unitarian suppression. Even the Gnostic and mystical traditions within Islam and Christianity do not tend to use that name, and among the 99 Names of Allah, I did not find that one. Also, many Rastafarians believe that the Holy Spirit lives in humans and will sometimes say I and I instead of we, yet they don't seem to use the name I Am for God/Jah either, so I really don't think it can be related to suppressing mystical and Gnostic interpretations. I think that originally oppressing those ideas and decreeing them heretical are quite enough, the early Church did such a good job that after the split many Protestant groups continued to condemn mystical and later Gnostic sects and theologies.




Yup, the bishops voted and it was settled for all time!!1 (Some say the preliminary votes were 150 something to 140 something in favor of the trinity)

But then Constantine stepped in: After a prolonged and inconclusive debate, the impatient Constantine intervened to force an end to the conflict by demanding the adoption of the creed. The vote was taken under threat of exile for any who did not support the decision favored by Constantine. (And later, they fully endorsed the trinity idea when it all happened again at the council of Constantinople in AD 381, where only Trinitarians were invited to attend. Surprise! They also managed to carry a vote in favor of the Trinity.)
http://home.pacific.net.au/~amaxwell/bdigest/bd12bbs.tx

Constantine made sure he got his moneys worth when he bought the church.
His men killed those opposed along with the early church and paid for the traveling about to burn other sects scriptures.
Check the Gnostic history.

Regards
DL

 

I thought the son asked to bury his father first. Why would the son ask to bury his father first if he was meant to be spiritually dead.

It is simply in this instance the nature of the living body. The body is animated by spirit, the body is not alive without spirit. Spirit comes from the word spirare, meaning to breathe.

 

Whether or not the bible accurately portrays historic events it certainly is itself, historically significant.

 

That they do not, or have not, is the reason for a new covenant. It is a response to the agony of the people. Come unto me all who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest.

This is the view if you set yourself up as judge.

In your version of god, is it the only actor in the world, that is, are all phenomena choreographed god? You seem to have an idea that all events are controlled by a higher power. What actually happens is that men claim that their excesses are inspired and sanctified by god. God is always on the side of the one who is writing the history.

I have never been told to hate anything.

Only to the extent that you do not endorse them.

 

Have you not judged God?

Yes you have.
To say I have judged him wrong and disagree is to say that you have judged him right.

Regards
DL

 

legitimacy is declared by authoritarians . then , when there
is revolt against authoritarianism ... what ? how does a people
feel it's center ? maybe the bible teaches Xians how to do this
and the learning is slow and careful . you who are dismissive of
the bible as legitimately authoritative , ?are you also advancing
this new way to be family ... in holiness , actually

arriving at and living the divine anarchy would
not imply people will stop
arguing inanely ... do carry on . the days
of peace are upon you .

bloviate in blessedness . ho

 

I didn't say wrong or right. I said this is the view if you have judged.

When you judge you feel judged even though you may not be in fact, judged.

Exactly as you demonstrate here.

 

Even if you take that assumption - I don't see how God, through the pope, can change his mind about what his Word means, and stay omniscient..

 

You're right I was mistaken. The point though was where the man was placing his responsibilities and convictions.

Paul does write that God is what we live in and gives our being so that's a good point but does that imply union with all?

 

I did not think that is what you meant by your original post. Clearly God does not "change his mid".

I thout you were speaking of authority and legit interpretations.

 

I see.

I hope that in the future you have good enough maners to stay away from my posts.I prefer to ignore dishonest debaters and game players.

There is nothing that I can learn from you in any case.

My maners tell me to answer any call. I hope yours tell you not to call those who do not want to hear from you.

I expect a reply that tells me that I am all wrong on my view and after that, I offer you success in your games, elsewhere.

Regards
DL

 

Did God not change his mind with A & E when he caused their death by breaking his covenant with them that said they could eat from the tree of life?

Regards
DL

 

My original posts were about that; the attack on omniscience was inspired by your post's scenarios.

I was simply saying, if you accept that the pope is guided divinely; don't changing interpretations over time hurt the idea of God being omniscient?

But, if you feel it's too tangential, just ignore this post

 

No I don't think you do see. I've done nothing to your posts. They are thoroughly in tact. If they suffer from my treatment it is because they are not in fact of durable substance.

For what reason?

Your manners? If you do not care to communicate then don't. You gain not one thing by sacrificing for me.

Expectation they say, is the author of disappointment.

 

He said eat of any tree but the tree of good and evil.

 

I am extremely not religious. But I am spiritual on many levels. so lets say there is this form of god being talked about. God would never put a book of such evil on this earth. It goes against so must common sense, and is just really illogical. knowing of all the manipulation and genocide that would follow.
The bible pushes evil on us, if we dont follow jesus we will burn till the end of days? And you have to talk through jesus in order to speak with god? Thats just fucked! Ill speak with god anytime I like without ever mentioning jesus.
And were all born with sin. That statement has created so much evil in this world. And if you confess your sins you can still go to this magical happy kingdom? So a general just has to confess to a holy man about ordering is men to contrubute to mass amounts of genocide and all is well. Or preachers molesting children all in the name of god. Yes that definatly has to be one of worst lines in the bible, even though every page has something that you can see how it has contrubuted to this state of the planet. Young children are extremely pure. they dont even know of sin or evil untill we teach it to them.
And i dont know about anyone else but i would never want to spend eternity in a "Kingdom". That sounds pretty pointless i must say. I do believe when our physical bodys die our soul does travel on to differnet galaxys in diffrent times, diffrent realms or you name it.
They say we wait in pergatory untill we are judged by god or something like that? Judged?! this all loving "father" to all of us is gonna decide if we suffer or live in constant happiness till the end of time? All based of how we live this one short life. Kinda sounds like some sort of sick game.
Every story in the bible has contadictions. Of all the religions ive heard of i must say that i think ones based on the writings of this book are the worst and by far have done the most disgusting inhumane things.
God would want us to naturaly find our higher beliefs throughout life and our own experiences. Stay with nature and take care of this planet and all others. As it is this universe we can thank for all of us being here.

There is alot more i want to say but I feel it the wrong forum to rant too off topic.