No such thing as Enlightenment?

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that since God doesn't exist for Atheists and Agnostics (or at least in a different way than most religious forms of Him), then Enlightenment can't exist.

Maybe a better question to ask is: What IS Enlightenment? Is a connection to something - is really really achieve through meditation or is it a mind game that have people convinced that enlightenment exists? For instance, believers in God have claimed to have 'felt' something that made them believe without a doubt that God must exist. Is this the case with Enlightenment, in any form?

How can it exist? Can we even know?

 

Thomas Paine in The Age Of Reason explains that enlightenment can exist, but it is something in ones head and isn't 'delivered' in any church.
i agree with him.
if someone says they were enlightened by Jesus Christ, i just roll my eyes. Thomas Paine is a deitist (or however you spell it), he believes in a god, but definitely not by ways of a church, its the ways of nature and self-revelation.

I'm an atheist, and i don't have any problem when someone says they were enlightened, but when they start spatting out bible verses its just phoney, and like in Paine's words, "heresay".

it doesn't matter if enlightenment really does exist, because if a God existed that does give enlightenment, it shouldn't be to only a few. ties back to the Epicurus riddle:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"

 

By that I assume you mean that it's internal? Or that we allow ourselves to believe it?

 

both.

 

To the extent that someone is freed from ignorance, prejudice, or superstition, yes there is a thing called enlightenment.

 

But we always be ignorant - we cannot know everything. And even if someone is freed of judgement (prejudice) and superstition, what does that mean? It seems that enlightenment in that form is just an acknowledgement that you can't know everything about anything - which follows that you can't judge or be superstitious.

I know I'm pretty ignorant (I probably just proved that with this post) so why am I not 'enlightened?' I don't really understand.

 

i think enlightment is an expression for a real feeling - maybe you only get it a few times in a lifetime . it's a fine feeling , a small feeling .

 

I can see that being the case...

But it is also often expressed as a goal of consciousness that is consistent once reached. Perhaps I'm wrong there - for I don't really understand how that can be the case.

Has anyone here experienced it?

 

We are the same species, why are you asking us for answers?

We get them the same way you do.

 

The universe is emergent so there is always something new. We can be enlightened many times over and is meaningful to the extent we are relieved to discover there are no monsters lurking in the shadows.

 

well , stories can get so ragingly psycho dramatic - no harm in that .
mostly all enlightment really deserves is a little poem . how did
buddha get to be so fat ?

 

Thanks TheDope and tikoo, I think you guys have explained it. I suppose I'm picturing a similar enlightenment such as one that Buddha experienced - but of course, how would anyone know what that was like? But how I understand it now is that it isn't some ultimate end of the self, but rather periodical moments of revelations of clarity.

 

the moments are worthwhile . light .

 

i love this....caused me to completely ignore enlightenment:

http://www.spiritualteachers.org/norquist_article.htm

there are places-both in meat life and on the net-where scavengers pluck the last shreds of dried tendon from enlightenment....and then crack the bones. when they are done, they have less to chew than when they started, and are no better nourished.

 

^ interesting essay. If he really feels that way, I feel bad for him. If I knew such a truth - I would hide it.

EDIT: As CS Lewis once said "To see through everything is to see nothing at all."

 

dont you know?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMNAOk1bMDw"]YouTube - Terrence Mckenna - Nobody is smarter than you are

your the only one who knows

good luck on your journey.

 

Check this out,
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/component/k2/item/824-seven-factors-of-enlightenment.html
these are fine teachers and it may help u on your quest

 

I think humans do essentially think we are special, whether we attest to it or not. Why these "special feelings"? Due to evolution or what have you... Do we feel special because we are gifted, or did we become gifted by feeling special? Did this feeling of being special drive us to greater heights? And if we drop it, what becomes of us?

>:0

 

I think enlightenment may exist, as a feeling or state of mind because...I think I felt it, got a taste of it, I understood it all, the meaning of this! But it was forgotten in a matter of seconds because I was under the influence of 2c-e

Now I'm thinking it is possible to bring about this effect of the brain naturally through meditation, and that's what enlightenment is all about...or it doesn't even exist

 

Enlightenment is real, I know from experience. I've lost about 15 lbs since the start of the year and I'm beginning to feel rather enlightened, or at least not as heavy as before.