Why are you a right wing libertarian?

We don't know what would happen.
It all depends on how extreme the politicans putting it into practise are. For e.g I wouldn't care about regulating educators but would want to regulate medicine through the GMC and have a trading standards council to stop buisness puttig any old crap out on the market and telling people it's something it's not. That's all I think we need to do though apart from the legal framework to make contracts binding. Libertarianism, the free market asepcts aren't anywhere near as chaotic as you might imagine. It's not anarchy after all!

and anyone making it harder to buy marijuana for any reason is just not a Libertarian as most people understand it. They're probably just conservatives who can't let go of their society controlling habits.

 

Marchfool

But that’s the problem – how is the drug problem to be approached – did you read –

Try reading - Rightwing libertarians and drugs
http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=368871&f=36

Just going – legalise drugs – isn’t a policy it is a slogan and like most slogans doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny.

There has to be some thought here. The questions that immediately jump to mind are why, how, what?

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For example a lot of the problems in Latin America are based in deep seated socio-economic problems that go back to the conquest. The latest manifestation is drugs, but just legalising drugs in the US (and other ‘user’ countries) is not going to deal with those underlying problems in the ‘supply’ countries. It might be a start but only a start.

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I would not be so shaw. Although we like to think so.

 

Marchfool

Marchfool

This is the problem as I see it, right wing libertarians don’t care about bringing about a better society for everyone.

It seems to you that education isn’t an important issue, yet education is incredibly important for the development and improvement of a society. It is a keystone of democracy and liberty as Thomas Jefferson put it –

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

But you wouldn’t care if there were no educational standards and so any old crap could be taught or that people were learning a whole load of things that were untrue.

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Now that is probably untrue you probably would want a good educational system but do you get my point about many right wing libertarian ideas not seeming to have been thought through?

 

My question to the right wing libertarian minded would be how would you bring in your version of libertarianism without greatly increasing the power of the already rich and powerful?

Low or no taxation would give the already rich an advantage

Few regulations again would help the wealthy

Little or no state welfare provision would seem to make it more difficult to get out of poverty

Having to pay for healthcare, education or training would also give the richer an advantage.

And repeal of all controls on wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and the abolition of employment laws would all seem to put the poorer at a disadvantage.

In short even if brought in slowly the system would only seem to help out the richer and more advantaged in society?

 

but the point is for a Libertarian is that people should be free to choose how they want to live. One of the reason's I started taking an interst in Libertarianism is because I was outraged that a women in the U.K was jailed because her kid didn't got to school. That kind of abuse of peoples freedom is just wrong. I'm just fatalistic about what will happen under Libertarianism plus it's not anarchy. It's nothing like anarchy. In lot's of ways there won't be much difference in terms of law and order esp. with regards to viloence and theft and damage to property etc. etc. I think it might be a good idea to have an educational equivalent of the GMC to strike off teachers who were teaching things that were contreversial or contentious but then there's an element of that in teaching as things are at the present. Plus bad schools won't be able to stay in buisness if the people paying for their children to be educated didn't do a good job. That's what the free market is all about...that's the beauty of it!

 

but no libertarian has ever been able to give me a workable method for solving disagreements between two persons who may or may not be rational or correct without an authority becoming involved

 

Disagreements are not illegal. Why would an authority need to be involved. If a crime occurred, police could still intervene. Otherwise there is nothing wrong with a disagreement.
If they can not agree, they can always get an arbitrator.... Just like people do now.

 

we are neighbors

you are an organic gardener, i love my pesticides and herbicides

which under a libertarian government are perfectly legal

hey, sorry if some of my ddt got on your kids

what next?

 

I ground my kids because I told them to stay away from your farm. Damn kids don't listen. You weren't on my property, or blatantly doing it on purpose were you?

With todays government, all you have to do is get some of your patented GMO plants to pollinate my crops and you can own my entire crop and all seeds produced. Shit you could take my whole farm.

 

Our economies are rigged to help the poorer which is fair enough. But the question then is what are the poorer doing with the money that that frees up for them? IMO there's far too much of that money being spent on people getting what they want...basically luxuries like alchol, fags,even t.v's and night's out and holidays. These things aren't a right. What makes me angry is you've got so many poor people in 'the west' having money for luxuries and spending it on luxuries when there's people living in abject poverty. We're all supposed to care that people might have to spend money on health insurance before alchol are we? That's the emotional blackmail the poorer people in the west have over the economy. I wouldn't mind a rigged economy to help poorer people but their lifestyles imo actually have a quite squalid and indulgent element to them and when I think that that is at the expense of buisness profits and the innvoation that those profits provide it makes me mad because for all you might hate buisness making big profits a lot of that money is re-invested in making products and serivces that make the world a better place. Our mixed economies hinder that by over taxing buisneses so we're in a situation whereby we've got money being spent on luxuries rather than innovation. Libertarianism sorts that problem out!
Doesn't that make sense?

 

The courts will be able to do that just like they do now with contract disputes etc.
Milton Friedman said that the govt. should "provide a mechanism whereby individuals can adjudicate their disputes…"

It's about minmial govt. not no govt.

 

don't want your farm

sorry the ddt got all over your food too, fucking wind . . .

oh, sorry too about all the noise at 2 am last night, kids blew up some fertilizer in the barn, sorry i woke you and the family up

btw if you're missing a dog i shot one this morning, he's always coming around to be petted and stuff but i just can't be bothered

 

Marchfool--please read the thread about corporate profits that is up right now. Thank you.

 

^^^ i'm a gonna put a LINK

so no fucking excuses

 

Is it all about tax avoidence by corporations?
That's hardly relevant to Libertarianism. Under Libertarianism they wouldn't pay anything at all because we wouldn't need a fraction of the tax that the Conservative and Socialist govts. do now. Everyone would pay a fraction of the tax they pay now.
and if you were making a fortune how would you feel if a large part of it was being syphoned off by the govt to subsidise the pathetic indulgent lifestyles of other people?

 

I'd rather pay it for layabouts than for killing people around the world. And you've swallowed the party line about welfare. I'd say it's exactly relevant to libertarianism what with libertarians always griping about rules and regulations on corporations/companies. The last 10 years have shown what weak regs can do to not only this society,but to the whole world.

 

This is from the article in the link on that thread.



"The profits recovery during the past two years is among the best, if not the best, ever. Profitable companies expand. They hire workers, buy equipment, and build more plants and offices. Capital spending on equipment has been recovering along with profits. It is up 18.6 percent over the past six quarters. Employment gains have been lackluster, but are picking up," Ed Yardeni, a veteran market analyst, wrote in a recent upbeat note to investors.

 

Fuck a bunch of investors. I care about the lower and middle class workers re-claiming their rightful place in society with living wage jobs,strong unions to protect workers rights and the rich companies and people to pay their proper proportion of taxes. And strong regulations to keep greedy humans in line.

 

Your point about weapons is all well and good if we were living in a world where we don't have to worry about other countries not being as nice as us if we stopped making weapons.


What has the past 10yrs. got to do with Libertarianism? It wasn't a Libertarian govt. it was a conservative one running a mish-mash of socialist and free market economic policies. A Libertarian govt. wouldn't have bailed the banks out. NO MATTER WHAT!!

And don't just blame the banks and the lack of regulation for what happened. Time magazine's 25 people most responsible for it had 'the American consumer' at #5. Things would have been very differnet if people weren't so indulgent on the day to day level just as things would have been very different if the banks had been more responsible.