For the trypts that have both a 4-AcO and 4-HO version (-DiPT, -MiPT, -DPT, etc.), how do you choose between them? From what I've read it seems like the actual experience tends to be very similar, but are there other factors such as potency or stability that makes one preferable?
They are no more "very similar" than DMT is "very similar" to DPT. Yes, there are many similarities, as they are all tryptamines, but 4-HO-DMT is noticeably different from 4-ACO-DMT for example. I believe HO's are generally more potent than AcO's. Stability is about the same. There is no easy formula for choosing, you have to read a lot of reports about each one and form a decision. 4-aco-dmt is one of the best RC's ever, that's a good place to start.
^^i think a 4-HO-X is gonna be a lot more similar to 4-AcO-X than to 4-HO-Y for example 4-HO-MiPT and 4-AcO-MiPT must be more similar to each other than to 4-AcO-DMT. that's just speculation. also you've never tried 4-HO-DMT have you? i know you've had mushrooms, but that's really a combo of different tryptamines.
I don't buy that combo thing, really we are talking about psilocybin which is converted to psilocin anyways, and minute amounts of baeocystin or whatever . . . i think the mushroom trip is much less broad-spectrum than say a cactus trip with its array of phens, along with mescaline. I think you're probably right about the similarities though between 4-ho-x and 4-aco-x etc.
but if 4-AcO-DMT can feel different than 4-HO-DMT, then i would think 4-PO-DMT could as well. i'm not aware of how much baeocystin / norbaeocystin is in mushrooms really. nor do i know much about what is in cacti besides mescaline. i messaged GB a few names of compounds and have them written on some paper around here though..
I find this interesting stuff. So you're saying, the suffix (dont know the proper chemistry expression) has more to do with the materials qualities than the base? (is base correct?) I don't tend to read too much of that technical stuff at BL or DF cause alot of it goes over my head and gets hard to put 100's of reports into one coherant view.
not really sure if your terminology is correct - i don't think so, but i don't know the proper terms either. i'm much more versed in biology / biochem than straight chemistry. but that's pretty much what i'm SPECULATING. only tryptamines i've had are mushrooms and 4-AcO-DMT once. some people think that the AcO group gets converted to the hydroxy (HO) group in the body, so it makes sense that 4-AcO-DiPT might be closer to 4-HO-DiPT than to 4-AcO-DMT. but many tryptamines are very structurally similar at the other "end" of the molecule too - like 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-DET - only 2 carbons difference. this is enough to make them separate drugs with separate effects, but i would bet they are a bit similar
IME, 4-HO's are shorter in duration, but stronger in effect while 4-AcO's are longer in duration but milder in effect (unless you just load up more and more)... other than that, there really seem to be no discernable differences other than some slight differences in body high/psychedelic mindset--but not enough to really notice these differences without trying one back to back or thinking really hard on the topic (something maybe not so easy to do while tripping).
Good info! For the record, I have tried 4-AcO-DMT and 4-AcO-DiPT. Those two were significantly different from each other, but according to the reports I've read 4-AcO-DiPT is essentially the same experience as 4-HO-DiPT (I think I recall a few reports actually using the terms interchangeably). I wondered if this was true for all 4-AcO vs. 4-HO pairs. edit: I have also done psilocybin mushrooms, which I just realized is essentially the same as doing 4-HO-DMT. IME that experience was significantly different from 4-AcO-DMT. Although I wonder if the two might be more similar if one were to dose synthetic 4-HO-DMT rather than actual mushrooms.
I don't have a ton of mushroom experience but Even between different psilocybin mushroom trips, I have found a great degree of variability between trips. Some have been clearly more body oriented trips as where others are more head trips, so perhaps 4-PO DMT is strongly active on it's own as well, maybe it's set and setting or maybe I'm just crazy. But imo trying to say an entheogenic plant/fungi/cacti = the same experience as it's main isolated psychoactive chemical is just not very good science. The lemon tek method has been used to supposedly make mushrooms more similar to a pure psilocin experience as far as I understand it and methods like this would not exist if there was no difference in qualitative effects. I am certain isolated/synthetic 4 ho dmt is a great deal different than psilocybin mushrooms, but I won't speculate how close it would be to 4 aco dmt. Mescaline is the same way, This is one of my favorite pages to read prior to each one of my mescaline trips: http://www.lavondyss.com/donut/guide/mescaline.html THE HIGH: The mescaline experience is my favorite of the traditional psychedelics (LSD, psilocybin, mescaline). I find it has the advantages of acid: a lucid, penetrating, focused ability of the mind, rather than the more dreamy, drifting state I get from mushrooms. However, I feel totally relaxed with mescaline, even calmer than I feel on mushrooms, and there's no trace of the metallic edge usually felt on acid. Eating whole cactus produces a more body-oriented high than pure mescaline. San Pedro usually produces a very smooth, flowing experience. However, the effects of Peyote are quite different due to its unique mixture of alkaloids. With Peyote, the first couple hours of the experience are very dream-like, drifting, almost a delirium type state. During this time I feel groggy and sleepy and can do little more than lay back and sink into the feeling, which is not unpleasant. Some element of Peyote also acts as an emetic, making most people nauseous about two hours into the trip. I find the mescaline experience to be more visual than mushrooms or acid. However, I've only experienced really spectacular visuals when using synthetic mescaline. My high tolerance to most psychedelics, along with the capacity of my stomach, has prevented me from ever being as high as I would have liked when eating whole cactus. Like psilocybin, mescaline tends to link me with collective evolutionary consciousness more than synthetics like LSD. The experiences produced by these natural psychedelics seem more "significant" than an acid high, which is more analytical. An acid high often seems to be a by-product of magnifying the mind, whereas with mushrooms and cactus one feels they are in touch with something ancient, spiritual, and personal. Mescaline has a unique signature in this context which I find most magical, a feeling that the Gods or protective allies are smiling down on me. The duration can be 6 to 14 hours depending on the amount consumed. The "coming back" portion of a mescaline trip is smoother than with the other traditional psychedelics. And I've never felt the "drained of energy" or "neural overload" feeling that can come after an intense acid trip. This allows for a more conscious and therapeutic return to regular consciousness, after which I can easily sink into sleep and wake up feeling refreshed. Some aspects of the mescaline high are quite distinct from LSD or mushrooms. The visions produced by mescaline have a different character and structure. When being overtaken by a full strength mescaline trip, I've felt more than with any traditional psychedelic that I was an extraterrestrial being, immersing myself in new sensory phenomena for the first time. Where LSD or psilocybin heighten and clarify the sense of hearing, mescaline produces auditory hallucinations, heightening the hearing sense but also causing sounds to be quite different than normal. Mescaline also sharpens the olfactory sense to a much finer degree than LSD or psilocybin. I've particularly noted this in my ability to perceive the smells of numerous different plants when using synthetic mescaline outdoors. As for aphrodisiacal use of mescaline, wow!, it brought energies out of me that I never knew I had. ***I know 4-aco dmt is highly regarded, is there another 4 sub trypt that really stands out in anyone's opinion?
i seem to recall seeing freebase 4-HO-DMT available somewhere. supposedly GC / MS confirmed. thanks for the mescaline blurb GB!
